I saw an article on yahoo this afternoon regarding the discussions of congress implementing another economic stimulus package and there was reference to the fact that most of the first payments went to savings rather than spending and thus had little effect on the economy so I wanted to run a poll to see where everyones went. I know I spent mine! 797 Si
Walleyebuster....
Amazingly the Dems that were so adamently against the last one now think it would be a great idea. Must be an election year. Here is the article..
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080721/ts_csm/astim
We should all be against the first and the next as they are loans from our kids minus the interest. I agree with Jon on the first part. We've cut taxes the last 8 years and look where we are.
I too agree with JJ. The people who deserve the break are the people working to begin with, put a freeze on income tax. I don't like the gas tax break, cause if you are not using alot/any gas, your penalized. If your working, you get the break, if not , then get your azz to work....
big G
-------------------- You can tell how big a person is, by what it takes to discourage them! "Hooks"
The money for the first one was rebated by the IRS and was not a loan or grant it simply reduced the amount of income tax each person paid in last year (It was YOUR MONEY). it is exactly the same as reducing taxes but was done in a way as to get the benefit to the us taxpayer as soon as possible. if they just would hav cut your tax burden 1800 bucks or whatever your amount was you would have not had access to that money until April next year.
Boy I am curious why many of you have not gotten this.. the only people not eligible are those that paid no taxes last year, and those that make over like 150K family income. Boy you guys must be writing off a lot of high end fishing equipment!!
Good to hear rootski the economy up there will greatly benefit from your savings.. Unfortunately most of the winter clothes you will be buying are made in chinda though!!
Quote: Boy I am curious why many of you have not gotten this.. the only people not eligible are those that paid no taxes last year, and those that make over like 150K family income. Boy you guys must be writing off a lot of high end fishing equipment!!
The key word is "Family". It is not set up to help the single guy paying child support.
Actually they borrowed the money to stimulate the economy. However they say to look at it. Our children and their children will have to pay it back plus interest. The first one was requested by our fearless leader and he signed it so I would call that bipartisan. Seems a bit odd to me that so called fiscal conservatives would borrow money and give it away. Cutting taxes during wartime is just plain dumb IMHO. I consider myself a fiscal conservative when one side talks about cutting taxes, the devil is always in the details. Give a penny to the common man and real money to filthy rich people.
It is interesting to see the different and confused facts/opinions about this. Someone says this and someone says that type of thing. Check out the facts by Googling a search "economic stimilus payments" and click on the IRS website to get the facts. It is all right there to see.
-You have to have $3000 of qualifying income to qualify for a payment. That can be earned income, net self employment income, Soc Sec benefits and some other things -You have to have a Soc Sec # (spouse too in case of joint payment) -If single and have an adjusted gross income of over $75,000 in 2007 you begin to have your maximum potential payment of $600 reduced (phased out) by 5% of the amount over $75,000. Example: $80,000 AGI and you lose $250 which is $5000 times 5%. -If married AGI phase out begins at $150,000 and your maximum potential payment of $1200 is reduced by 5% of the amount over $150,000 -You can't be claimed as a dependent by someone else on their tax return -I think I saw that anyone who has non-tax related debt to the government, such as student loans, is not eligible as well
Again, Google and go to the website as there is good info there. I would post it here but the address is a monster.
Wisker. You are incorrect.. They did not print money, they did not borrow money they simply rebated taxes that you had already paid. This is exactly the same as giving you a credit next year. That money is not borrowed it is just not taken in by the government. in this situation they gave it back to you instead.
For arguments sake lets say they borrowed 100 dollars at 7 percent annual interest. In the first year that would cost them 107 dollars. They in turn give you 100 dollars that you spend on a new depth finder. So the money goes from you to Humminbird.
Humminbird then pays their employees and suppliers 50 dollars of that and the rest is taxed at the corporate level through Johnson outdoors. That is 30% of the 50 dollars remaining or 15 dollars due to the government. Which is then spent on government programs essentially putting that money back into the economy where it is taxed again and again..
Of the 50 dollars paid to the employees They get taxed at a personal rate, then spend what is left and it is taxed again and again..
The point is that if the government gives you money and you spend it under all circumstances the government makes more money "on the comeback" then it put out.. This is exactly what ended the great depression. The federal government spent so much money during that time that it exploded in windfall taxes during and after the war! Welcome to the birth of the modern US tax system...
FYI Income taxes were not collected (forgiving a few very short periods) by the federal government until the IRS act of 1936. Very near the start of world war II.
Prior to this there was NO tax on income in the US! My god how did we survive!!!
This also coincides with the end of the great Depression 1928-1938
HMMMM lets see the government started taxing people during the worst economic time in recorded history... WHY would they do this? So they could spend more!! And tax more, hence spend more and tax more. We were an under taxed society then.. Now we are overtaxed. So the spark has to come from the government..
Spent mine on an American made gun vault, thank you very much!
The money we got back was ours to begin with. Always remember that! The government makes no money on their own, we give it to them. Everyone wants to think long term in the negative: "Our kids will have to pay it back." Well maybe so. But this stimulus will make about .005% difference in any taxes they might pay anyhow. Plus if we can find the right combination of things to get the economy going again paying it back, if you will, will be a very small issue as compared to the economy completely crashing.
Besides anyone relying on a few hundred dollars to make ends meet today will most likely be no better off in 5, 10, or even 30 years unless they do something different than what got them to where they are. Sadly few people are ambitious enough to make the needed changes. If you keep doing what you've done you will continue to get what you've gotten. No way around that one!
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Most of my life has been spent fishing.The rest of it I just wasted. If I'm not fishing, hunting, or ATVing, you can bet I'm wishing I was! Control your kids, not my guns!
I dont know many people that dont fit those criteria. I am sure there are those out there but if you owe the government or a judgement money or if you and your wife make better than 150K you probably should not get any rebate.
Additionally (not to offend any present company as I UNDERSTAND the [censored] of this deal as I know close people this happened to) if your did not recieve a rebate because your ex got it.. You actually did get the rebate but unfortunately that B*&$^ got to spend it all.
What I don't get is why anyone would say someone who makes $75k or $150k for a family doesn't work just as hard as someone who makes $50k. Seriously, getting an education and a good job somehow qualifies them for a penalty?? Seems just like the Dems, tax the rich so the poor can continue to live off them. Making over these dollar amounts, living in the twin cities, is far from a windfall living that leads to early retirement.
-------------------- I was born in the 70's, grew up in 80's, made my mistakes in 90's now I'm just trying to make up for lost time.
True that kooty!!
That said you have to cut it off somewhere and 150K in a lot of other places is livin high on the hog.
Just think though when you sell your house after 20 years in Minneapolis you will be able to pay cash for one much bigger in a lot of places..
Dont cry too much about the cost of living there..
With very little exceptions (detroit lots of CA) it comes back to you in the long run through appreciation of your Real Estate and in effect FORCING you to save more of your income over the life of your mortgage. Rest assured you can move out to hutchinson when you retire and get that big house on a lake cash money after selling your 3bedroom with no garage in Minneapolis for a half a mil in 10 years
Mine went to big oil primarily. The rest went to an American corporation that employs a bunch of Chinamen at a discount rate and then sells their product back to the people of the USA. So I guess my money ended up where most US money ends up, helping China and the Middle East.
-------------------- Wade Kuehl - Jolly Ann Marine & Outdoors
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No whining about cost of living, just stating the facts. Yes, hopefully the real estate market will come back to life and a portion of my "retirement" actually appreciates. Like you said, it's all relative to a certain point, which brings me back to what income is really outrageous(more than one family can spend) vs. deserved/earned??
-------------------- I was born in the 70's, grew up in 80's, made my mistakes in 90's now I'm just trying to make up for lost time.
It's been saved, but I know where it going in about a month! I pushing for the 3rd and 4th quarter economic GNP so my stocks will kick back up before the end of the year.
Much of the information you provided is correct, however, you mentioned that this was money that was paid last year and you are getting it back (paraphrase). That is not correct. The stimulus payment is/was based on 2007 income taxes, but is for 2008. If you don't receive the payment, in whole or in part, you may be able to receive the benefit in the form of a credit on your 2008 return (filed in 2009.)
Jheese Florida, I don't know you but do you really believe that when Our grandchildren are in dept $40'000 right now and they borrowed all the stimulis ckeck money from overseas. Im not slamming you but we don't have any money to give, its a loan from somewhere!
Quote: They did not print money, they did not borrow money they simply rebated taxes that you had already paid.
Not true. The money is borrowed. The money was created by the sale of US T-bills and bonds. The money you paid in taxes in 2007 was already appropriated and spent in 2006.
They essentially printed the money (Checks) and gave them away.
Here is the deal: Making the Bush tax cuts permanent and taking them farther will stimulate the economy. I know it isn't a big shiny check from the guvment; but it works. It works every time it is done. And the IRS actually takes in more money because the economy is booming.
Raising taxes and especially going after the "filthy rich" as Kev likes to call them, has a negative impact. The rich don't spend and probably shelter their money. Which in turn slows down the economy. And that leads to less productivity, demand, blah blah. Raising taxes takes money out of peoples hands and out of the economy.
The "filthy rich" is the old, stale money ie...Kennedy, Rockefeller, Carnegie, etc...that is not productive. They have trusts that utilize tax breaks, there by side stepping most taxes. The "rich" small business guy, who is already giving half to the government, is the one getting hosed because he is the one creating wealth and he is being held back by his "caring and understanding" government. I believe I read that 35% of people pay no federal income tax. That's funny because I started paying taxes at Age 12 when my folks taught me how to work. Oh, and yes, I didn't get a stimulus check. I make my own stimulus by not being satified with my situation and working hard to better the situation. My $.02!
Quote: Printing money and giving it away, devalues the dollar and creates inflation.
If the US government wants true economic stimulas, cut taxes. Let us keep what we earned.
-J.
Need to cut spending too...Counter-cyclical deficit spending targeting defense contractors and tax breaks to the oil companies is exactly the same as printing money and welfare...It just benefits a different demographic.
Oh, just remembered...my mutual funds are heavily invested in both oil and defense industries. I better continue to support corporate welfare .
Yes 318 you are correct but why would you let the government keep the money that long. I want my money NOW!!
Mossy thanks for not slamming me. I only enjoy getting slammed by 6 foot blonds!
Your argument though is flawed though. They did NOT Borrow the money! IT IS YOUR MONEY. Now you could argue that by giving the money back to you they had to borrow money for some other program that ran out of funds. NOW YOU could also argue that Ultimately what happened is they took income (governments) and rather than use it to reduce debt they rebated it back to those that paid it in. so yes there may be some debt that is not paid off as a result of this..
HOWEVER, If the result is an increase in the overall economy and the people do spend it it will be taxed again and again and will recoup most of the money shelled out initially. We are only talking about 168 billion which in government terms is chump change.
Even if they save it that money will eventually trickle out onto Wall Street where your stocks and mutual funds will rise because your bank has invested your savings account money for you, or you have as an individual. and all of a sudden your investments will be doing better. You will be earning a higher rate of return, and since you have more of a buffer having that money invested you may be more likely to spend more of your disposable income.
and make no bones about it..
STOP SPENDING ALL MY FRIGGIN TAX DOLLARS ON [censored] WE DONT NEED!! AND PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE!!
I hear ya Blue and all of what you said is the process but with the national dept running what it is and when it comes down to it, its borrowed money. Now if the national dept was in the plus, atleast the amount they gave away, then I could say it was a stimuless check. I do know sometimes getting a loan does stimulate certain things but I can only see what we've received as being eaten up by inflation caused by rising prices from the price of oil. Slowing down those effects is the only way I can see it doing any good at all. If its borrowed we'll have to pay it back in some way or another at some time or another. Myself Id rather have seen all of that money goes twards a national drive to get away from high mid-east oil, to me that would be money well spent, theres other places where that money would have done the general public more good, in the short run and in the long run.
THE PRICE OF OIL IS DETERMAINED BY THE WORLD MARKET.. and the value of the dollar. but if it was truly the value of the dollar that was the problem then you would see increases of the same percentage for all items.
What you see is small increases to cover the increase in oil costs. we still have VERY cheap gas here try living in europe where it is 4 buck a liter..
There is a lot of speculation going on that there are immediate supply concerns. that is turning out not to be the case.. This is NOT a good time to be invested in oil futures. the bubble is busrting. today trading at 125/barrel.
I should have been more specific on mid-east oil. I know the prices are set somewhat by supply and demand but I put the mid-east as the culprit because I think they have more to do with setting world prices and the rest of the oil producing nations following suit. As far as im concerned they could all drop thier barrel price $50 a barrel, but because we'll never see that type of compassion because thier blameing some of the high price on speculators. The speculators were responsible for as much as 35% of the price in the 80's, fact. So as I see it take 35% off the price of a barrel now and you end up with close to $85 per barrel. When it comes to the prices set by the bigger producers in the mid-east if they dropped thier prices by just 10$ a barrel we'ed be back to a more stable economy. Mid-east oil producers and speculators are the culprits to me. If it wasen't for the inflated prices were seeing from both parties we'ed be seeing $2 to $2.50 a gallon gas again. Theres other culprits that are causing this but I see these two as the main ones, bring things back to earth where people can live within thier means again. The price in Europe is like comparing beans to tomatoes, If the neighbors farms on fire and mine isn't im still hopeing the wind dosen't change.
Mossy that was a good one. All I can say is I agree. If you catch the winds of what people who know are saying they are all saying somewhere 70-90/barrel is where it should finally end up. 85 is right there.
FYI I did a little research and found Break even on a barrel of light crude is around 20-30/barrel today. That is actual production cost.. So there is lots of profit there even at 70/barrel. Keep in mind though that the prices on the NYMEX are oil in the US so there is some transportation costs that number as well. I think we were down to about 124/barrel yesterday.
I think we were all fine with 2-2.50 gas and we should get back there, eventually as that equates to <90/barrel. Gas prices always lag prices for oil so it will bee a while til we see it really come down. If you remember oil was outrunning gas prices there pretty good for a while, and now all that expensive oil has been refined and is coming through the Gas supply lines now. It will take a few months to fully purge the system and have the lower priced oil coming back through..
I am very worried though that then this will all be forgotten and nothing done NOW to alleviate the guaranteed crisis down the road. Clearly the writing is on the wall!!
One thing that we have failed to mention is that many nations subsidize gas and oil for their citizens. China, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and Venezuela are all countries that do this. In Saudi Arabia Gas is 40 cents a gallon, this encourages wastefulness. All governments should stop doing this as it artificially dilutes the cost of energy to the people of that country and encourages wastefulness. If they paid what we paid, just those 4 countries I have read estimates that it would reduce oil demand by 20-25 percent world wide. China alone would be huge, and they actually just decreased the amount of the subsidy they provide and this has reduced their demand almost overnight.
Yep sounds right to me, I still think the old nutts in a vice theory is a shorter route for the mid-east, thier chargeing those base prices just because they can.
economic stimulus part 2 VOTE!!
I guess I am one of the Super Rich as I didn't get one...even though I don't have two nickels to rub together. 
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