with all the awesome reports of alot of fish being caught this way i gave it a shot a couple times last weekend. the only thing i managed to catch were sheepies. the other problem was either i was getting snagged alot or not feeling the bottom. i tried all differant sizes of jigs with varied results. i know the amount of current and depth will vary the weight. i tried alot of differant wingdams, from differant angles and approaches. i tried anchoring and holding with the bow mount. i really dont have a question i would just like some opinions and advice from guys who have success with this technique. thank you, dan
I fish this presentation alot. A few things I can tell you about it is #1 a good quality rod and flame green fireline is a must . I fish St. croix Legend tournament and Avid rods with 8 lb green fireline. The green line lets you keep track of your line as it is moving down the dam and you see slight ticks that you barely feel but you need to set the hook immediately if you see them. #2 is use enough weight so that you keep bottom contact . I use 3/8 and 1/2 ounce most of the time in the summer when I'm out on the tips of the dams. If the current is down you can get away with 1/4. If you are still trying to get the feel I would stay with the heavy ones so you can feel the bottom better. In the winter I go lighter with plastic to get more of a hover in front of the dam instead of pounding the face of the dam like I do in the summer. I hope this helps.
A bunch of guys are going to read your post and say "yup, been there!". There's nothing easy about fishing wingdams with jigs. Boat control in the current is tough to figure out. Knowing where your jig is can be tough. Detecting bites can be tough. I know, I've gotten very frustrated at times trying to find Walleyes on wingdams in Pool 2. I still struggle.
I guess all I would say is that there's no substitute for experience. Keep at it, keep plugging away. It gets better. Do some reading, there have been some very good threads on this site over the last couple of years discussing things like anchoring, boat control, rods, lines, jigs, and presentations.
And no matter how you look at it you were doing a lot of things right. You set up on a wingdam and caught fish, right? If I had to live on what I caught in Pool 2 , I'd have a bunch of Sheephead recipes by now!
Good luck, keep asking questions and have fun.
Rootski
-------------------- Every now and then its gettin' kind of hard to tell but I'm still alive and well
i use a st.croix legend elite with 8 lb. power pro. i have had some good success trolling wingdams and just want to learn some differant tactics. ive mainly tried 1/4 to 3/8 oz h2o jigs. ive lost alot so bnfishing is going to get an order pretty soon. another quik question do you guys ever use stingers. seems like i was getting bit short alot. ive only been using half or less of a crawler. ill keep plugging away and thanks for the replies, dan
I may be a bit different when it comes to crawler/leech/minnow on a jig...I like mono. If I am fishing a dork rig, I like Superline. The mono is a little easier to let the fish get the jig into the fish's mouth, and not pull it out on the hookset. Dork rigs, they have already picked up the bait and there is a bit of slack before setting the hook...so Superline is fine there.
Again, that is me...I know a lot of guys like Superline for both. I just seem to have better feel on the hookset and more confidence using mono when pitching jigs to dams.
hey Dan just me what kind of reels are you using I only use baitcaster while working the dams alot easier my opinion to stay in contact don't have to trip bail or pull the line out we need to get together and try things out together the wingdam bite has been slow for me been trying different things using everyone's suggestions but with little luck give me a message back what your weekend looks like good luck with the wingies.
A dork rig is a egg sinker on superline down to a swivel. From the swivel down you can use mono, Flourocarbon or Superline down to a hook. The line length is usually 12-18". Yep, you will go through your share of sheepies and other species. But that is wing dam fishing. Dork rigs are nice when you are lucky enough to have willow cats. Otherwise I will take a Lindy Rig sinker...the smallest I think I need. If I am in between weights...I opt for the heavier of the two and whiddle down the lead with a side cutter until I have the perfect weight to "Walk" or "Wash" that bait down to the dam. I will start out about 45 degrees when doing that, and let it sweep to the dam. A dork rig, I often cast and let it sit at or close to the base of the dam.
It is a hard thing to learn but yet easy. Can`t explain it totally. James allways told me you have to beleive your bait is in the right place even though you really can`t feel the bottom or the jig. I know when I get to heavy for current and depth that is when I start losing a lot of jigs.
Some of that tap tap is there are so many sunnies on the wing dams right now along with sheepies it actually is hard to get to the walleyes, with live bait. Thats when I will pitch blades, cranks or plastics. Plastics still work during summer but not the hot bait.
-------------------- Do to fiscal constraints the light at the end of the tunnel wil be temporarerly turned off.
Quote: Dork rigs are nice when you are lucky enough to have willow cats.
Speaking of willow cats, does anyone have a good picture of a willow cat? I am tying some hair jigs and have been having some good luck on my shad,leech,crawfish and nightcrawler ones and would like to try a willow cat version.
-------------------- DOGS ARE THE BEST FISHING PARTNERS THEY ALWAYS WANT TO GO AND ARE HAPPY WHERE EVER YOU ARE FISHING, PLUS THEY DON'T STEAL FROM YOUR TACKLE BOX.
sry to hijack the thread ... but i had to chime in on the dork rig. i tried that setup for the first time this summer. i used the new mustad slow death hooks and bullet sinkers. they worked slick as snot imo.
and the action from the slow death hooks was pretty intense, even at slower drifts. dont know if they increased my catching at all, but i will say that those lil hooks spiral all day long!
Fishing jigs and bait on wingies is one of the more difficult techniques an angler can try to master. You should expect to loose jigs. At times, lots of them.
I do have some suggestions that might help you cut down on the snags. And put some more fish in the boat.
First... get rid of that thin diameter braided line. It is KILLING you. If you want to fish a braid, increase the diameter to a 6 or 8 pound diameter line.
The diameter of the line used provides lift and control of your jig in current. A micro-thin line cuts through the water and allows your jig and bait to sink like a rock into the face of the dam. And the result is snag after snag.
What you want to accomplish is a slow and controlled sink rate and using a line with some diameter to it will allow you to use the current to your advantage to keep your jigs "hovering" just above the rocks. Basically the downstream current pushes UP on the line and the weight of the jig pulls down. Your job is to find a nice balance that allows you have control of your jig, work in and around the structure of the dam, without constantly getting snagged up.
Regardless of which line you end up fishing, mono or braid, the advice to use a hi-vis line is excellent. If you're going to really get a handle on this technique you will become a line watcher. It is pretty rare to "feel" what the jig is doing. Most often you will need to watch the line to know when the jig has hit bottom and to monitor the drift speed and direction.
The next piece of the puzzle is to get your jig weights right. Dustin and I just filmed a wingdam show for In-Depth Outdoors (to air next April) covering this exact topic. To make a long story short the current levels were very low and a 1/8 ounce jig was too light. A 1/4 ounce jig was too heavy. If you tried to fish either of those weights in the deeper water around the dams you caught ZERO fish. None. Once we switched to a 3/16 ounce jig.... GAME ON! If you don't have all the intermediate sized jigs (3/32, 3/16 & 5/16) you will struggle in certain situations due to the inibility to refine the weighting of your offering.
One final piece of advice... narrow your focus on wingdams when fishing jigs. Typically that means limiting your casts to cover an area directly behind the boat and off to each side out to 30 - 50 feet or so. Guys get in trouble when they try and cast too far off to the sides of the boat into areas where the current is no longer lifting their jigs, instead the current is washing the jigs directly into the dam and into their next snag. All this really means is if you want to fish another area on the dam all you need to do is to re-anchor to get your boat back into proper position above and slightly off to the side of the target area. Doing so will grealy limit the number of jigs you lose.
And here's a teaser... I got to fish with the new 1/8 and 1/4 ounce snagless draggin jigs this past week as part of some field testing. Suffice it to say these jigs were incredible. You could basically throw them anywhere, not get snagged, and the hook-up percentage was awesome. My understanding is they'll be coming out in quantities in the next month or so and I'm going to predict that this jig is going to be a huge hit with guys that fish HEAVY cover in current on the river.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Quote: seems like i was getting bit short alot. ive only been using half or less of a crawler. ill keep plugging away and thanks for the replies, dan
Yup, you'll pour through the bait fishing wingies mid-summer. All the sheeps, cats, redhorse, mooneyes... everything is using the wingdams and they all like crawlers and leeches. For Dustin and I, fishing Sunday and Monday for 8 hours a day, we went through over a dozen-DOZEN crawlers and a half pound of leeches. I can't tell you how many 1/2 pound sheeps and fiddler cats we caught.
But we did manage 30 walleyes in the 21 - 26 inch range and a ton of smaller eyes and saugers as well.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
A good idea, no scratch that, a great idea is get the "River fishing with plastics" tape-CD James and Dustin made. Contact Dean at Evert's and he can get you a copy. That tape is the best I have seen by far for explaining jig weight to line diameter in combination with line color well as an excellent explanation on line watching. As James told Tom P a long time ago, you get to the point of just trusting the jig is down there. I have explained it more like the jig is "gliding" rather than thumping along. Really no different than pitching crawlers trout fishing, you are always looking for that perfect drift. Guys like James, Tuck, Dustin and others are masters at reading the water and accessing the current speed, water depth etc. and how the fish will position in order to take advantage of passing food. Sometimes, the fish will be on top of the dam, sometimes at the base-the jig weight must vary to achieve that "perfect drift". One of the best things Dustin ever told me was "nothing replaces time on the water, and lots of it." No one was ever an instant expert at fly fishing; much of the same with jig fishing. Better yet, plunk down the cash and hire James, Dustin, Vandy or any of the other great river jig guides and cut your learning curve by a million miles. But in the mean time, get that tape and learn to read the water and properly apply--this will work the same for livebait or plastics, then buy a load of jigs and fish, fish, fish.
Quote: seems like i was getting bit short alot. ive only been using half or less of a crawler. ill keep plugging away and thanks for the replies, dan
Yup, you'll pour through the bait fishing wingies mid-summer. All the sheeps, cats, redhorse, mooneyes... everything is using the wingdams and they all like crawlers and leeches. For Dustin and I, fishing Sunday and Monday for 8 hours a day, we went through over a dozen-DOZEN crawlers and a half pound of leeches. I can't tell you how many 1/2 pound sheeps and fiddler cats we caught.
But we did manage 30 walleyes in the 21 - 26 inch range and a ton of smaller eyes and saugers as well.
What do you guys prefer for leach size when pitching jigs. Tried large leaches a few weeks back and they kept hitting them short. Was going to try mediums next or maybe the large on a dork rig.
No larger than mediums for me. And preferably dark black if the bait shop guy is willing to let me sort as I just don't do nearly as well on the brown or lighter colored leeches.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Just read your last post James. Great advice. There is a light at the end of the tunnel as far as jig pitching goes. Once you get it figured out you will loose a fraction of the jigs you did when starting out. There will still be some bad days but there will be others that you cant believe you fish one jig all day.
I just started pitching more leaches and crawlers this summer. they do not fish like plastics or hair jigs. Live bait you need to be aware of little changes in weight and how the water drags on each bait. Example a large leach will not drift the same as a small leach. A half crawler will not drift the same as a third crawler or smaller profile crawler. These may be small changes but being aware of them may save you a few jigs.
James also hit it right on the head with getting the right jig weight. To heavy of a jig is easy to figure out. It does not drift and goes rite to the rock on the bottom. To light of a jig can be just as bad. You dont feel anything down there until it does get hung up and you loose the jig. When learning new spots or if you are un familiar with the flow on a dam there is a good chance you are going to loose a few jigs just figuring out the right weight size and how to get them to flow right across the dam.
Alot of my spots I get the jigs to sweep more across the wingdams with out making a lot of contact with bottom. Like someone mentioned earlier you just know your jig is in the right spot down there. There are some time when more contact with bottom is what the fish want but for the most part it is more of a drift just above the rocks.
Is there any place for a jig and minnow set-up during this mid to late Aug. weather on the main channel or wing dams I should say? Maybe Lindy rig? Length of snell?
Good question. Here is why I stay away from minnows in Summer on wingies...unless they are willow cats: 1. Minnows are hard to keep alive. 2. Fatheads are not hardy in the Summer, and when spawning even less so. 3. There are a TON of minnows on the dams right now. 4. Leeches and crawlers move slower and can offer a better meal for a walleye as they know or feel they do not have to expend as much energy to take one.
I don't know for SURE if any of that is true...but it is the reason that I have more confidence in artificials that are swimming erratic, or a slow moving crawler or leech.
jig and crawler help
another quik question do you guys ever use stingers. seems like i was getting bit short alot. ive only been using half or less of a crawler. ill keep plugging away and thanks for the replies, dan
