I am certain that this post will really raise hackels. Anyway, I think that the open season on these two pools has depleted the walleye population despite what the DNR says about fish census. It just doesn't make sense that during the spawning season these fish are open for catching. Have I fished during this time? Yes I have. Have I kept the fish that I caught that were legal? Yes I have. However I have not done this in the last 15 years because I thought that this is not good. I quit fishing during this time of the year for that reason. I have heard and read all the reports that most fish are being released and not kept. I have a hard time believing this. I do not believe that the lower end of Pepin has changed that much so that the fish are not attracted to that area. You guys know more than I do but do not give me the fact that the DNR says fishing is the same. By the way I am a person who believes in the good work that the DNR does. These fisheries are getting depleted because of over harvesting by too many fisherman. Just check the gut barrels at any of the resorts such as Everts during this time of the year. Everts is great but just do what I said.
Quote: I have a hard time believing this. I do not believe that the lower end of Pepin has changed that much so that the fish are not attracted to that area. You guys know more than I do but do not give me the fact that the DNR says fishing is the same. By the way I am a person who believes in the good work that the DNR does. These fisheries are getting depleted because of over harvesting by too many fisherman. Just check the gut barrels at any of the resorts such as Everts during this time of the year. Everts is great but just do what I said.
I certainly can appreciate and respect your concerns in regards to your concern for our fishery!
Although I do not agree with some of your statements I can appreciate how you might feel that way.I personally have had similar concerns myself and have found after researching a bit and working with some of the fishery people and the fisherman themselves that the data continues to show very strong year classes in our pools.
Your comment regarding our "gut barrels" led me to believe or percieve that we have 50 gallon drums full of fish remains here.That is significantly different than the 3 and 5 gallon pails that are actually used.I would also invite anyone to check our pails as well.
No doubt we have lots of room for improvement,but I really believe you would be very proud of the number of anglers that responsibly fish and release.I grew up in a time when the concept of fish & keep was the only harvest practice in place.Those standards have changed dramatically in todays angling...but no doubt we need to continue to promote responsible angling and fishery management.
Thanks for your concerns and thoughts,it is a great reminder for all of us ! We also appreciate the comment on "Everts is great" !
-------------------- Dean Marshall - Everts Fishing Resort
Located Below Lock & Dam #3 near Red Wing, MN!
Click on the Everts Resort banner above to visit our website!
I agree! But .... people who make their living this time of year would struggle...guides,resorts and baitshops if they close the season. My idea would be to put in place a boundary line, lets say 1000 yards or more from the dams(all pools) where there is a no fishing zone. Then the season can stay open, people who prespawn fish can and the walleyes/saugers have a great area to spawn without any pressure. That way the walleye/sauger will always have a chance for good year classes. The aurguement on this is more fish are caught during the summer months. This maybe true but when I fillet a 17" fish I only kill one fish not 200-1000. Really how many eggs are in a 17" fish? Lets say this fish has 20000 eggs at a 1 percent survival rate that leaves 200 fry that make it, this is my only pet pieve on prespawn fishing. Even tho pool 4 has handle this pressure for years I think its time to give her a break. I believe installing the boundary line would make pool 4 or any pool 5-10 times better than they are now.....hard to belive huh?
Petty tough to believe P4 is getting depleted of walleyes when we were having 30-50+ fish days trolling in 4-8 hours this past June and July in the middle of Pepin.
Don't ever forget that P4 is a "river". It changes every year. Even Pepin changes a bit. The wingdams in the south have silted in and every spring there is a different method to the madness of the current seams in the north.
Call it good or call it bad, those changes in the system has established one of the top 10 walleye factories of the Mid West. Not fishery....FACTORY! And there is the protected slot limit of 15" minimum protecting the young resources.
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I too can appreciate your comments and concerns. I just have a hard time seeing this particular water and area targeted for the commentary. If your concerns are purely for the fish, then you'd have to look very carefully at what electronics have done for the winter fishing....for all sport fish pursued during the winter for that matter....and either ban the use of any electrical fishing aide or close the season prior to ice up because because anglers have an un-fair advantage.
I fish pool 5 late in the year and again quite early in the spring. I use no live bait and I keep absolutely no walleyes unless they are legal and are deeply hooked and will not survive the release. I do keep sauger. I don't see much abuse of the resources at this dam. Many days I am c/r 100%. When it is warmer and the ice is gone, my measure of the wlleye health in the big river is gauged by angler success. This summer has be good to many, many anglers and the size of the fish being caught [and released] tells me that there is no peril here. Pool 4 is the DNR's baby and they do an excellent job of care-taking. Save for the lack of enforcement in many areas, the dnr does a pretty decent job all over the state.
-------------------- Plastics: making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys!
CT
I too am concerned for the river but like everyone else I disagree with you. This system is unbelieveable! After about a 5-6 year absence from fishing pool 4 I have again started to fish it and the fish we catch are AWESOME. My brother and I have had days in june and july where we get 50-100 walleyes and sauger a day! We also have had at the same time of year you get 4-5 fish and they are all over 25 inches but they will be the only fish you catch that day. Just take a look at tournament results. Last week the Frontenac Sportsmans Club held a tournament in Lake City look at the weights that came off the wing dams down by Wabasha. 27.3 LBS was 1st place. almost all of those other teams went south also.
The aurguement on this is more fish are caught during the summer months. This maybe true but when I fillet a 17" fish I only kill one fish not 200-1000. Really how many eggs are in a 17" fish? Lets say this fish has 20000 eggs at a 1 percent survival rate that leaves 200 fry that make it, this is my only pet pieve on prespawn fishing.
I also appreciate your concern for the fishery. But if you take fish now, are you not killing the fish making the spawn next year?
Here is my take. Fish right now are hard to catch because there is an ABSOLUTE TON of baitfish in the system right now. Strides taken in recent years towards cleaning these rivers have helped shiner and shad populations immensely! Fish are hard to catch right now because this is the point during the life cycle of baitfish where they are the right size for those slotters of yours to eat. I will go out on a limb here with enough rope to hang myself...and say that we will have yet another excellent fall and winter...just like the last 10.
I would also like to add that this is a replaceable and sustainable resource. From what I have been able to ascertain, the numbers are doing just fine.
I know little about p4 and much less about 5. As a newbie relatively speaking to P4, my jaw drops at seeing all the fish caught...not only walleyes/saugers..but channel cats too.
Besides the DNR telling me that the fishery is as healthy as it was 20 years ago, it wasn't until I dropped a camera in a few places on P4 did I truly understand what is down there. I'm only an arm chair biologist, but I believe that even with all the fishing that goes on in P4, we are only scratching the population.
Not only is pool 4 the longest pool of the sippi, but most diverse with the many feeder streams, rivers and creeks but also with Pepin.
Not raising any hackles here Mack...just a jaw dropping fish factory.
BTW Tuck, it's kinda scary but I never understood taking fish in the summer but not at spawn either. Just because at one time of the year a fish is about to spawn and another time it has 8 or so months before it spawns...we're still taking those fry out of the system. What's the difference?
I agree with pool 4 being an awesome fishery. I fish lower Pepin 3-4 times a year without any problem catching fish. Not that I'm a great fisherman but I'm fishing a great fishery. My point about the 17" fish is common sense. Ya, if I keep that fish in the summer, yep she will never spawn again. But in the spring when she is days to maybe a week away that to me is just wrong. I guess what I'm saying that fish in the summer spawned that spring....that spring fish never did! Have I done it... yep I have done it when the limit was 12 walleye/sauger down here in pool 11(showing my age).
James had a graph of year class numbers over a few years some time ago, it showed (to me) that ever year we had a severe spring flood that the year classes where huge...Why was that? Was it because they had more water to spawn in/ or because people where not fishing/catching them? I'll take the ladder of the two.
I truely think this website has helped the fishery, not only pool 4 but several walleyes waters about the importance of throwing that 20" + back.
I'm not trying to stir the pot, just stating what I think needs to be done to ensure a great fishery beyond our little stint in life.
Not all of the fish in this system spawn at the dam. Alot of fish spawn in Lake Pepin also.Pool 5 does not get near as much pressure as pool 4. At the ramp in Alma you may get 20-30 boats because it is too far from Twin Cities. I am a 3rd generation river fisherman and I remember what the river was like 35 plus years ago the number of big fish is alot better now than it has ever been.
Quote: Not raising any hackles here Mack...just a jaw dropping fish factory.
This is very true. Come up here and fish Pool 2 sometime. 5 or 6 fish is a big day on Pool 2, and it's not unusual for the guys who really know what they're doing (NOT me) to come away empty handed at times. Pool 2 doesn't have dozens of tributaries, it doesn't have big weed beds, it doesn't have Lake Pepin. Because of this and because of it's proximity to a major metro area the MN DNR made it 100% C&R for Walleyes, Sauger, and Bass. And we still don't have the numbers that Pool 4 has.
Rootski
It's astonishing how many fish there are in Pool 4.
-------------------- Every now and then its gettin' kind of hard to tell but I'm still alive and well
so, if I understand correctly, it is a "cosmetic" influence that says it is ok to keep the fish in the summer, fall, winter, but not the spring?
Cosmetic being that it is wrong to eat a baby lamb (lamb chops) because it is a cute animal, but chicken eggs are great because they are tastey and have no psychological effect to the conscience?
I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm just pointing out that death is death, no different than mid-February prior to the close of the season, while the walleye is in its migration to the spawning grounds or mid-May while the walleye is on it's journey away from the spawning grounds.
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Click on the Everts Resort banner above to visit our website!
I'm sure someone on IDO has the info you're looking for...but I wanted to hear it from the horses mouth. I emailed the MN DNR and they directed my email to the Lake City DNR office that does the studies on P4.
I guess in the defense of releasing full of spawn fish over keeping them would be the obvious fact that we all benefit from one more year of fry.
I know a lot of folks release all the females in the spring and keep the males if they plan on keeping fish. I can understand this thinking because it's the only time I can tell the difference between a male and female.
One a different note along the same thread...THIS type of post is the exact reason, I practice CK&R (catch, kiss and release)and left the kill everything practice of the '90's.
It's threads like these that the new fishers and fishers of the future will read and come to understand what they are holding in their hands when they hook and land a larger fish...whether it be a walleye, bass, panfish or cat.
Quote: BTW Tuck, it's kinda scary but I never understood taking fish in the summer but not at spawn either. Just because at one time of the year a fish is about to spawn and another time it has 8 or so months before it spawns...we're still taking those fry out of the system. What's the difference?
Many have read my ramblings on the Mille Lacs forum about taking walleye via gill net during the spawn. Just so I don't come off sounding like a hipocrite, I am against the taking of such a large part of the biomass of any given age range of fish. With the gill net, taking fish during the spawn you are targeting fish that can fit into a 1.5" diameter. Ie: slot fish that many people are having a hard time catching right now. With the River, we practice catch and release and can and do release the spawning females for the most part. And we as individual anglers do not (In my opinion only)take an over abundance of the available resource.
Hey while we are on the subject of pool 4. This year on 2 different trips we caught several walleyes/a few sauger that are hump back (possible broken back at one time). Not just one or two but 10-12 all around 13.5-14". Any one else catching these fish or noticing this? BTW we were around Maple Springs.
A voice from the front of the boat told me thats all I catch is deformed fish...if thats the case I maybe able to catch my limit next year .
Those are the walleyes/sauger that just barely escaped the jaws of a flathead.
Rivereyes (a former biologist if I recall) had a post up out this very thing about 4 years ago.
Seems that this type of thing happens in nature frequently. They were deformed at birth. That's about all I can remember. I'll see if I can find the old timer to comment.
Is P4 a great Walleye fishery? I believe so. Could it be better? Anyone would have to believe yes. Maybe a slot should be enforced during the spawn season. You would be astounded if you saw how many anglers keep 2,3, even a whole bag of 6,7,8+lb fish either not caring or not knowing any better so Mackerel I do share some of your concerns having had to shake my head a time or two at fellow anglers and I'm sure all of you have witnessed this at one time or another.
What about the fishery in your opinion could be better on Pool 4?
I would have to argue that the last few years...with the most amount of pressure I have seen in 30 years...has given up more trophy fish than ever before. Correct me if I am wrong, but I could swear I was reading post after post this Spring about "My Personal Best Walleye!" I think that is in part due to the prolific fishery that Pool 4 is, and the common sense used by many anglers with a propensity towards catch and release. Many more than those we would consider "Meat Hogs."
But back to my question, and I am not baiting you into anything...What would you expect to see with changed regulations?
IDK maybe all walleye over 20" must be immediately returned except one trophy over 28"? Just an idea. Personally I caught my biggest walleye 2 years ago in the spring time down below Red Wing dam,(CPR'd) so I am NOT complaining about the status of the fishery it is world class but, just a little concerned after seeing the depletion of other great walleye fisheries.(Mille Lacs, i.e. or so reports tell us) Maybe it is different because it is a river I don't know I'm just throwing it out there.
And I am not saying MOST anglers don't understand the importance of C&R probably even 90% do but for that other 10% I wouldn't mind seeing a slot on fish similar to that on Mille Lacs.
Slots are important on some lakes, esp Rainy, Kabe, Vermilion where growth rates are slow and it takes 10-15 years to get a 28" fish.
The growth rates on the Mississippi are so fast that I dont see slots being important to "protect" the 20s so that they can get to trophy size.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe on Pool 2, the growth looks like this: Year 1 6-8" Year 2 12-14" Year 3 17-19" Year 4 21-23" Year 5 25-27" Year 6 28+
Obviously, there are a lot of variables, but on these fast growing waters, a "trophy" only has to survive a 2 year window where they are typically harvested. Colder, northern lakes, those fish need to survive a 5-8 year window.
Mille Lacs is somewhere in the middle. Protections are mostly political, but also a response to the amount of fishing pressure.
Quote: What would I expect to see with a closed season during spawning season? You have got to be kidding! Better fishing in May and June! That's what!
It seems to me that the only barrier to good fishing in May and June is high water. Even then people have learned how to over-come some of the headaches it brings to have outstanding catches.
I really don't want to sound crass, but I hardly think think the problem here is an abused fishery or over-harvest by that mythical 10% you mention earlier.
This river system is changing all the time. The people who are not finding fish are perhaps not putting the time in that others who enjoy success do. Bottom line here is simple: you want fish, put the time in. The persons getting nice catches with consistency are doing something right and they talk about it here. Read the posting before you head out on this water to see what is currently working....like within a day of your visit. You'll have to go prepared though and have an open mind to trying tactics you may have little experience in. That's how you learn to fish a challenging water. Heck....follow some of these guys and watch what they are doing to catch fish.
Slots are not going to happen unless someone finds a way for Mn and Ws dnr's to agree on it. That in itself is not likely. Both states would have to see a need to regulate further than they already do and, trust me, they don't and for good reason. More regulation is not going to put more fish on your line. And since we know that the fish are there, putting them on your line is up to you.
-------------------- Plastics: making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys!
CT
Quote: I am certain that this post will really raise hackels. Anyway, I think that the open season on these two pools has depleted the walleye population despite what the DNR says about fish census.
Depleted? The fishing just keeps getting better and better and that is supported by the annual counts conducted by the DNR. Point blank, the fishing has NEVER been better. The fish counts are in fantastic shape.
Could it continue to get better? Yup. As individuals we can continue to release the larger fish caught. This will improve the size structure, one fish at a time.
Next, to make a large scale impact we need to continue to work on the silt loads dumped into the Mississippi River coming from the MN River. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, kills more walleye eggs than than nasty mud water coming out of the MN. The silt suffocates the eggs before they have a chance to hatch and the build-up of silt destroys prime spawning habitat.
Our issue is not having enough females to lay enough eggs each spring to guarantee a good spawn so shutting down the fishery would have no impact on maintaining a healthy population and will NEVER have support from the biologists. We have far more females than are needed to take care of that end of things. River and weather conditions during the spawn are the #1 limiting factors. And those can't be regulated unless we figure out how to control precipitation, weather and get a handle on the MN River.
Now a protective slot during the winter / spawning months MIGHT have some support (I'd support it) but not because it was needed to ensure successful spawns. I would support it because I like to catch BIG fish. And a 20" - 28" protected slot would naturally protect more big fish. But that's my personal preference and other anglers would not share the same desire to see that happen. Overall I don't think you would see a huge increase in adult fish although I'm sure you would see a noticeable shift in the size structure. A fishery can only support so much biomass. Add more big fish to the population and adjustments in the population will be made by Ma' Nature in other areas. Then the question at that point is the change desired by the majority of anglers fishing the body of water or is the protective slot catering to a small minority that put a premium on the opportunity to catch big walleyes over numbers of average sized fish?
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Quote: I do not believe that the lower end of Pepin has changed that much so that the fish are not attracted to that area.
The lower end still attracts fish when the water levels are right for the fish to be there. But the heavy siltation and loss of depth throughout the backwaters on the lower end has effected all fish species in that area. You can claim all you want that the fish aren't on the lower end in the same places they were 15 years ago because the fishermen caught all the fish but the truth is quite simply... the backwaters filled in. That area is NOTHING like it used to be. It still can be incredibly productive at time and the wingdams are incredible... but with all the siltation and overall loss of depth and loss of current through many of the backwater lakes and cuts during a large part of the season... that area needs a lot of help to get back to what it once once.
Habitat. First and foremost, healthy fish populations come down to habitat. Not fishing regulations.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Quote: James had a graph of year class numbers over a few years some time ago, it showed (to me) that ever year we had a severe spring flood that the year classes where huge...Why was that? Was it because they had more water to spawn in/ or because people where not fishing/catching them? I'll take the ladder of the two.
Higher water levels give walleyes access to more suitable spawning habitat that results in a MUCH higher rate of spawning success. Walleyes lay eggs in their preferred spawning areas off the main channel which keeps the barges from churning up the freshly laid eggs and sending them off downstream to die.
Spawning far off channel in the backwaters provides protection from suffocation from the silt load present on the main channel due to the backwater providing a measure of filtration of the silt.
Fry hatched in the backwaters have a better chance of surviving than if they hatch in areas on or near the main channel. The water temps warm faster and there are fewer predators and more cover.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Quote: Not all of the fish in this system spawn at the dam.
Guys,
Few walleyes spawn at the dam. The habitat just isn't there in the area. Some saugers do. The walleyes caught at the dam during prespawn are collecting in the area below an obstacle stopping their upstream migration. As the time to spawn gets closer those big walleyes drop back down stream and find suitable spawning habitat.
But the real catch is the fact that a minority of the walleyes spawning on pool 4 get anywhere near the dam in the spring. Many find suitable habitat many miles downstream. Notice all those monster tournament catches in April that never seem to come anywhere near the dam? And the pool 4 telemetry study that showed that the vast majority of the walleyes spawned within a few miles of the lake versus up at the dam?
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Quote: Hey while we are on the subject of pool 4. This year on 2 different trips we caught several walleyes/a few sauger that are hump back (possible broken back at one time). Not just one or two but 10-12 all around 13.5-14". Any one else catching these fish or noticing this? BTW we were around Maple Springs.
I've caught a good number of fish with this condition. I've asked the DNR about this and they felt confident that it was damage caused shortly after hatching, while in the fry stage. How the damage was caused was / is anybody's guess.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Quote: Next, to make a large scale impact we need to continue to work on the silt loads dumped into the Mississippi River coming from the MN River. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, kills more walleye eggs than than nasty mud water coming out of the MN. The silt suffocates the eggs before they have a chance to hatch and the build-up of silt destroys prime spawning habitat.
If you've ever fished the confluence of the MS and MN in the spring, the difference in the water is astonishing. The Miss looks cleaner than the St. Croix. On the other hand it looks like you could get out of the boat and walk around on the Minnesota.
So what can we do, as individuals or as a group, to help the Minnesota? It seems to me that making improvements in the Minnesota would help everyone who fishes the Minnesota as well as every one down river.
Rootski
-------------------- Every now and then its gettin' kind of hard to tell but I'm still alive and well
Quote: What would I expect to see with a closed season during spawning season? You have got to be kidding! Better fishing in May and June! That's what!
Quote: Petty tough to believe P4 is getting depleted of walleyes when we were having 30-50+ fish days trolling in 4-8 hours this past June and July in the middle of Pepin.
Stale; I'm not trying to brag with the above. What I'm trying to explain is that many people a banner year for numbers this summer on Pepin. We had doubles and tripples on trolling passes. If you are struggling catching fish on the system, then ask for help. What I was doing was no secret and I wasn't alone either. P4, Pepin, & P5 will not be learned over night by anyone. And even if you learn it "one year" it changes the next.
James; Great info! By the way, James can you post that study again?
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The Minnesota has been and continues to be the storm sewer that drains SW Minnesota. There has been progress made with CREP and some other programs; but there is a long way to go. You are talking about a massive area that once had wetlands to act as filters. Think about all the tiled fields that drain into the county ditches and those ditches drain into the tributaries or the Minnesota itself. A big rain is like a big flush. Wetlands restoration and stopping the practice of draining and farming marginal land are the solutions. But it has to be done to hundreds and maybe even thousands of square miles. And with the demand for grain high and the prices paid for that grain it doesn't look promising right now.
Well, I would expect to see better catching rates in May and June on the end of the lake. Don't heckle me now! Why? Because just a few years ago that happened for a number of years. I posted sometime ago that when I witnessed big spawners in nets spewing eggs even though the big fish was released only one other poster said that he witnessed the same thing. So let me say this, " I think that the fishery would be better than now without fishing during the spawning season as that is the case with every other in-land lake. That is why they do not allow it! Does this make sense to you?
Quote: I posted sometime ago that when I witnessed big spawners in nets spewing eggs even though the big fish was released only one other poster said that he witnessed the same thing. So let me say this, " I think that the fishery would be better than now without fishing during the spawning season as that is the case with every other in-land lake. That is why they do not allow it! Does this make sense to you?
Those few thousand or tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of eggs dropped by walleyes during handling by anglers each spring are inconsequential to the overall success of the spawn and certainly would not give cause to close or alter the fishery on pool 4. The numbers are so low in the grand scheme of things they literally count for nothing towards the overall success. The number of eggs laid is not the primary factor that determines the success of our annual walleye spawn right now as Pool 4 literally has more fish contributing to the spawn than is needed to ensure a successful spawn. If you chose NOT to take my word for it then it is time to get your nose into some of the research available.
Let's me ask you this question.... the MN DNR estimates that the walleyes on mille lacs spawn an estimated 5 BILLION eggs per spring. Do you think the success of the spawn would automatically be half as strong in a year when 2.5 Billion eggs were laid? Would it be twice as strong in a year when 10 billion eggs were laid?
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
James, Thanks for your replies. However, the last question you asked could not be anwered by me and also I think by you because it was a loaded quesion and I am not at all the walleye fisherman that you are and to tell you the truth you are asking about apples and oranges. There are so many variables on the Miss for fishing. Let me just tell you this: I have a friend who is the best walleye fishrman that I have ever fished with and he thinks that the flow on pool four has been non-existent for the past few years during the summer. This has caused bad catching rates. He has lived on the lower end for the past 20 years. My veiw is that everything we can do to protect this fishery should be done and I think that the spawning season should be protected just like it is in the rest of the state on inland waters. Just do not ever consider not using common sense in making a statement! Again, I know for sure that you are a much better fisherman than I am.
Quote: Let me just tell you this: I have a friend who is the best walleye fishrman that I have ever fished with and he thinks that the flow on pool four has been non-existent for the past few years during the summer. This has caused bad catching rates.
I honestly don't mean to come off as being punkish here but to me it sounds like the best fisherman you know needs to learn to adjust to changing conditions. The fishing the last several years, even during the low flow conditions, has been phenomenal. For both size and numbers.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Quote: James, Thanks for your replies. However, the last question you asked could not be anwered by me and also I think by you because it was a loaded quesion.
Actually that question is not at all loaded. It is a basic question intended to find out if you do indeed think that simply adding more eggs to a spawn will automatically make that spawn more successful. Based on some of your arguments for closing the season it would seem to me that you do indeed think this to be the case. And therefor the question.
-------------------- James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
Well let me just say this, from your last response; I would say, "we don't know that"! Also, you do not know who I am talking about with the fishing aspect of expertice because this guy is phenomenal and you should not take a shot at his performance by saying he does not know how to adust! Let me say this, "I think it is o.k. to disagree and I thank you for your comments. Trust me, I mean it! JJ
Quote: Let me just tell you this: I have a friend who is the best walleye fishrman that I have ever fished with and he thinks that the flow on pool four has been non-existent for the past few years during the summer. This has caused bad catching rates.
I honestly don't mean to come off as being punkish here but to me it sounds like the best fisherman you know needs to learn to adjust to changing conditions. The fishing the last several years, even during the low flow conditions, has been phenomenal. For both size and numbers.
I think this demonstrates the need for sites such as this. The debate of the fishery, the sharing of techniques and the passing of information is unbelievable! Just 10 years ago when the "Best fishermen I know" would never have employed concepts and techniques of today. We were jigging minnows by the dam. Period. The onset of plastics, crank baits, hand lines, dragging jigs, jigging jigs...and a whole host of electronic improvements! All that while building all of the Pools of the Mississippi into the fishery it is today. Mackerl, I am not as old as you, but I have been fishing this River for 35 years. I can honestly say that in the last 5 for sure, that I have seen the largest number of and best overall size of fish than I can remember.
If they are not in "Your old Spots" or "My old spots" there is a reason for it. The river changes, habitat changes with it. Year classes fluctuate from year to year. Up one year, and down the next. Shiners up...shad down...each presenting something different to the system being either a challenge to fishermen or a hugely successful year that you remember for a LONG time to come, and it seems we all compare those times to the "Best" times we remember. I remember a time where I caught 26" to 28" fish after fish off the Vermillion River bridge one year. It has never happened since. Has the fishery been depleted? Not at all! The fish are in the river yet, but not in that exact spot for whatever reason.
I remember skipping school in the very early 60"s and launch an old aluminum boat right off the Red Wing levee in front of the train station....pulled the boat out of the back of a pick-up and dumped it over the bank. We made the trip to the dam with a 9.9 pushing three of us. Had the fish gave up catches as well as they do now, I'd say that those trips were worthwhile. And yes, those were jig/minnow days and yes, we kept what we caught....everything.
Things have changed. This is exactly what Mr. Tuckner has so nicely put forth. His comments on being adaptable have hit this nail directlyy on the head.
-------------------- Plastics: making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys!
CT
Quote: We were jigging minnows by the dam. Period. The onset of plastics, crank baits, hand lines, dragging jigs, jigging jigs...and a whole host of electronic improvements!
O.K., I knew I would get hammered! That is o.k. As I said, I had not been up there fishing during the spawning season for the reasons I mentioned. I really do understand every repley. However, after reading every reply I will say this: I should have not used the word depleted! Because that is not true. Just stating on emotions so give me some slack. Also, the reply from Everts I believe but let me just say this. I was talking about 15 years ago gut barrels. However, In keeping with the tune of conservation of our resource can any of you people out there tell be that it is a good thing to harvest during the spawning season? Can anyone say maybe it does no good? I just love you guys and gals that catch 50 to 100 walleyes a day. Sounds to me like Dick Chenney shooting that amount of pheasants on a game preserve. I will admit that since I do not like to troll I am missing out on some good catching rates. Believe me when I say that the lower end of the lake was really good to me up until three years ago. I have a fish finder, I watch what other fishermen are doing. I used to be good but I guess I am not good at fishing anymore. So kudo's to all you people who fish in the spawning season and who release all those fish. Again, my thought is for good fishing in the future because that is why the DNR closes all fishing in the state during the spawning season on inland waters. It makes good sense to me to do that and it also makes good sense to do it on the river! Take care and keep your eyes open for the people who do not release all those walleyes you are talking about. Trust me, I am not bitter just concerned! I am glad that I made this post. It opened up some good thoughts! JJ
Quote: can any of you people out there tell be that it is a good thing to harvest during the spawning season?
To simplify my already simple thoughts...
What's the differance if I harvest a fish that's full of spawn today...or harvest the same fish that will be full of spawn in 6 months. The only differance I see is that I lose this years spawn over next years...but a person can say that about EVERY years spawn...whether they are full of spawn at the time or not.
Hi Briank. Well to reply may I just say that you should ask the MN DNR that question. Just trying to use some common sense for this statement. May I say, that did you ever read the story of "Shoot Out On Sag"? This was written after the spring when the MN state walleye record fish was caught. Since that time Sea Gull River is cut off during the spawning season if it extends into the opening time. Also, Winnie regulates where you can fish on the opening if it interferes with the spawning season etc., etc. and etc. I again say I would guess that the DNR could give you reasons for
Over Harvesting Pool 4 and 5
Re: Over Harvesting Pool 4 and 5
Fish are hard to catch right now because this is the point during the life cycle of baitfish where they are the right size for those slotters of yours to eat. I will go out on a limb here with enough rope to hang myself...and say that we will have yet another excellent fall and winter...just like the last 10. 
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so Mackerel I do share some of your concerns having had to shake my head a time or two at fellow anglers and I'm sure all of you have witnessed this at one time or another.
Re: Over Harvesting Pool 4 and 5
Re: Over Harvesting Pool 4 and 5
Re: Over Harvesting Pool 4 and 5