We are on the verge of a financial awakening never before seen in this country.
Impending crisis's in the financial markets, once solvent companies collapsing from mountains of bad subprime debt. A cripppling federal deficit. How long can the US be a debtor nation? Continued dependence on a non sustainable energy source to fuel our economy. A crumbling stock market that is supposed to fuel our "American Dream" While some may argue this a "blip" or "adjustment" I believe this signals the beginning of a fundamental change of the global view of the US as a financial superpower.
Thank your greedy self serving politicians, along with a country of "me now" consumers that want everything, but want to pay nothing.
The time has come to pay the piper , good luck everyone.
As controversial as this subject could get , and as much as I dont like to feed into that, I would have to say I belive that there is a good chance that you are right.
I'm not sure who to entirely blame here, but holy smokes, are you right! Scary stuff going on right now. There are a lot of people asking themselves why they can't afford their 500k house even though they only make 100k as a couple. Go figure!
-------------------- "I didn't come here to buy shoes"
bpjj@comcast.net
Quote: holy smokes, are you right! Scary stuff going on right now. There are a lot of people asking themselves why they can't afford their 500k house even though they only make 100k as a couple. Go figure!
Agreed, just because you "qualify" for 500K doesn't mean you should finance 500K. Consumers themselves need to look in the mirror before they start pointing fingers.
Yes, several bad signals on this one. But...we are a resiliant economy and a massive economy. The lending crisis is definately beyond anything that we have ever seen. ALOT of people were lent money who should not have been lent money. The US consumer does need to be reeled in and definately needs to go on a diet. Those are the "me now" consumers previously mentioned. But... we are an intelligent, transparent and adapting group of people who will come out of this, but NOT without pain. I believe in the USA. Our's is the best economy in the world and capitalism will prevail over greed in the long run. I, for one, am tired of the negativity being pushed by the media, political candidates and people I talk to on a daily basis.
I work in the financial industry and its damn scary when something like a money market account that is supposed to be one of the safer investments takes a tumble as a downstream impact Lehman Brothers woes. The government bailed out AIG, but should they have? Do you let the market correct itself by getting worse? Not sure on this one, time will tell. Scary times for sure though.
Quote: I work in the financial industry and its damn scary when something like a money market account that is supposed to be one of the safer investments takes a tumble as a downstream impact Lehman Brothers woes. The government bailed out AIG, but should they have? Do you let the market correct itself by getting worse? Not sure on this one, time will tell. Scary times for sure though.
I hear ya Mack....
But the AIG bailout was really an interest bearing loan. The Federal Reserve will make 10 or 11% I heard, and AIG will be required to sell off some assets to make this work. Nothing says it won't be a bailout when it is all said and done.
The government needs to stay out of it. The free market system will correct itself. It was the democrats that said we must make housing loans to less than desirable of credit applicants. The U.S. government will guarantee these loans thru Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, therefore the banks did'nt care who they lent to. Now these less than desireable credit applicants found out they could'nt pay because they were given a ARM loan. The rate goes up, payment goes up- guess who's left holding the bag on these government secured loans. It aint Washington, It's you and me. Let them default, let some banks get burned, and the free market will fix itself. If your money is in a FDIC insured account you have nothing to worry about. Those of you worried about your retirement account; buy, buy, buy. Do not pull the money out of your 401k. you are in it for the long haul. You will get more shares for your money when the price is down. But then again what do I know I'm from Alma.
Don’t just blame people with less than desirable credit. There are plenty of good credit people that are being taken down with the housing/market turmoil. At least in the years past (I don’t know now with all the changes that have been made) there were still strict requirement to qualify for Fanny and Freddie. I do know of situations that loan officers created fraudulent loans to make those qualifications (and those folks should be in prison). It has always made we wonder why loan officers don’t need to be licensed like a stockbroker?? Anyway, banks fail in this country every year. There is a concept of “too big to fail” that if a large bank, insurance, etc (technically I think it is for banks but I think some of these other financial companies like AIG is falling into this category)it is better to bail them out then allow for mass panic and bank runs, which could lead back into a depression. Yes there is FDIC, but if a large bank like Wells Fargo failed, that FDIC would dry up in a hurry. So are the bailouts right? Good question…
Like others have said, if you have the ability it is the time to buy.
Do a little research on the banking crisis of the 1980's. 1600 banks failed (Federaly insured). There is no comparison in scope to what we are deling with now.
The market did need some correction, some bad loans were written, some people did some unethical things. But if you have money, put it into the market. Things will turn around and you are buying a ton of stuff in a low market.
-------------------- I would rather be sittting in the boat thinking of God, then sitting in church thinking about fishing.
Who needs terrorist when we are able to sink ourselves by our own ethics in the financial markets. Wallstreet drove up the oil futures, brokers and banks pushed through fraudulent loans. We are our own worst enemy and this will take a long time to correct. It is putting a squeese on the average family and we still have the winter and hollidays to go through following with our tax deadlines in the beginning of the year. It's the little guy that is really feeling the pinch.
This whole deal has been coming for a long time... like a glacier its slow but powerful.... Ive heard it say our economy is fundamentally sound... in my opinion so is the body of someone who has just been shot in the head... saying something is fundamentally sound is basically ignoring the huge hole in the brain.... OK.. so we are sliding down a precipice... slowly but gaining speed... we are grabbing onto Bushes to break our fall (ok.. get it.. bush? fall? funny huh?)... anyway the bushes keep pulling out and we keep sliding... how deep is the hole? well thats one question.. is there any trees that we can grab onto to stop us? thats another... if I knew the answer to these questions Id be a trillionare by now.. or at least a billionare... lets not apply finger point and party politics here.. Im not a political party person... just how do you grab onto politics for support when they all pretty much are either A. wrong.. or B. shifting positions like a weather vane... the reason we have a "free market" is so that the market can adjust to whats happening... in nature you evolve or die.. this same principal applies to business.... this doesnt mean that help is never effective!... intelligently applied assistance can mean the difference to life and death... lets hope the people providing assistance are intelligent.. not just trying to follow some quirky left right agenda.. we are all in the same boat here.. or does someone think that one side or the other isnt in exactly the same mess? as we slide into the abyss its not really helpful to scream and point fingers... but working together, helping each other as best we can... this is the way to be...
To all you nay sayers, I’d like to point out the US economy is not in a recession. In fact, the last time there was negative economic growth was when Clinton was in office. And as a matter of fact, the last recession was during his leadership. The economy has expanded every single quarter since Bush took office. The economy as a whole remains fundamentally strong. If the leftist media was not constantly shoving negative news down your throats, most “Average” Americans would see little to no day to day effect based on what happens on Wall Street.
Like I said. The markets are currently over sold. If you want to make money in the stock market, buy low, sell high. It’s a lot harder than one might think!
oh boy.. a fight!.. can I be the referee? I like to be hated by EVERYONE... lol
but... since there is no one else here right now.. Ill toss out the puck...
right out of wikepedia... 2001–2003 2 years The collapse of the dot-com bubble, the September 11th attacks, and accounting scandals contributed to a relatively mild contraction in the North American economy. this was during the bush years right.. or was he on vacation from 2001 to 2003?
current recession? well a predictive model that has been right 100% of the time so far put the chance of a recession at.. drum roll please... 100% http://bellone.ensae.net/recession.html
Im not sure what a nay sayer is.... Im just a guy hoping the bubble gum and duct tape hold together so we can all keep our jobs, feed our families... and go fishing... did I mention Im against finger pointing? and Im not pointing fingers here.. that would be hyprocasy.... lol
Quote: To all you nay sayers, I’d like to point out the US economy is not in a recession. In fact, the last time there was negative economic growth was when Clinton was in office. And as a matter of fact, the last recession was during his leadership. The economy has expanded every single quarter since Bush took office. The economy as a whole remains fundamentally strong. If the leftist media was not constantly shoving negative news down your throats, most “Average” Americans would see little to no day to day effect based on what happens on Wall Street.
Like I said. The markets are currently over sold. If you want to make money in the stock market, buy low, sell high. It’s a lot harder than one might think!
-J.
Jon, why do you insist on arguing this issue using facts? It is grossly unfair to those of us that have an opinion based on what the leftist media is spewing! Oh, buy the way, I have been bottom fishing for several days now!
Quote: signals the beginning of a fundamental change of the global view of the US as a financial superpower.
This has been on the radar screen for quite a few years in the international business community. China is the financial superpower and will remain this way for many, many years to come, unfortunately. Since I have so much time before retirement it gives me a great chance to buy low so not all is lost for everyone.
-------------------- Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
1. naysayer One who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude. Naysayers are distinguished by their tendency to consistently view the glass half empty, make frequent one-way trips to negative town, and constantly emphasize the worst of a situation. They have the capacity to rant and whine for hours on end about the most insignificant inconveniences. They tend to travel solo, but have the keen ability to spread their pessimistic attitude to a group of unsuspecting bystanders and encourage others to employ their mindset. Naysayers tend to blend in with those around them rather well, granted they have learned over the years to adapt to their surroundings. However, when the opportunity arises, their true nature will be exposed and they will stop at nothing to exclude others or bring a general sense of negativity to any situation. Not to be confused with non-naysayers who fight against the negativity brought forth by naysayers, make the best of a situation and are not afraid to call out a naysayer on the spot.
Being the world renowned naysayer that he was, Jobe complained about nearly every aspect of the party and made sure nobody else had a good time.
cool... if the shoe fits wear it I say.. that one dont fit...(me anyway).... plus I wear boots anyway..
but ok.. if were going to stereotype.. as the REFEREE (remmeber I claimed that spot and there were no nay sayers.. so I get to be ref! lol) .. I insist we stereotype EVERYONE... ok.. from the list below.. I claim "the Joker"... imagine me with a painted face asking you "why so serious?" so now Im the Joker.. AND the Referee.... so there! now WHO are you?
name your poison kids.. there are shoes of all sizes here... step into your stereo type and wear it religously.. they tell me you can never change them.. I guess they are glued to your feet...
People The Nay-Sayer Down Side: Discredits ideas before they’ve been fully explained. Has a complete fear of the unknown or is so religious about previous design experience that they won't try anything new. Their favorite phrase is: "That’ll never work."
Up Side: Many ideas, in fact, won’t ever work. People with great experience often know that a particular solution won’t work, but can't explain why – they "just know it". The less experienced team members become frustrated by the apparent lack of rationality and resent being shut-up, but they may be thankful later.
The Interrupter Down Side: This person has a lower threshold for speaking. While one person is articulating an idea that they've been thinking about for a day, the interrupter yells "Wait! I've got an idea!" and then they proceed to pull a piece of crap out of their [censored] and sculpt it into something hideous while everyone waits.
Up Side: These people often have good ideas and occasionally do a big favor by bringing focus to a rambling brainstorm.
The Problem Changer Down Side: This person fails to see the fundamental limiting factor of the design. When they see a difficult constraint they attempt to circumvent it by changing the problem. Their favorite phrase starts: "If only...":; "If only this portable stereo didn't have to run on batteries."; "If only we didn't have to go so fast to get into orbit."
Up Side: In some situations, the very best solution is to change the problem. If one person thinks that the problem should be changed but others don't then there is probably a lack of clarity in the design assumptions which needs to be rectified.
The Joker Down Side: Continually breaks everyone’s concentration by cracking jokes or making fun of the situation, especially the users of the product.
Up Side: Comic relief is always welcome in small doses. And of course, making fun of sales, marketing, accounting, and lawyers is always welcome!
The Bump Down Side: Fails to help when they are clearly needed. After walking a mile, they fail to go the extra inch to finish the job. Their favorite phrases are: "That’s not my problem." and "That's not a bug, its a feature!"
Up Side: At least they don’t fight back when you knock them over.
The Problem Hog Down Side: Prevents the rest of the team to contributing. During design, they fail to share any expertise. During implementation they insist on specifying the details of everything.
Up Side: There is a correlation between good engineers and "hogs". The best engineers often recognize their own superiority and do their best to get the optimal solution, and end up looking like hogs. (Things go very bad when someone thinks they are better than they really are yet acts like a hog.) In some situations, the hog actually trains everyone else how to do the job.
The Selective Memorizer Down Side: Their favorite phrase is: "If we'd just done it my way, we wouldn't be having this problem." They remember who made the early design decisions that went wrong and "forget" the warnings that others posted about things that ultimately went wrong in their own system. They can quote someone’s exact words when it’s in their favor and "forget" the instructions that they didn’t agree with.
Up Side: A whole team of selective memorizers never lets anyone weasel out. But even then, they will probably drive each other crazy.
The Team Defector Down Side: Once their part of the problem is solved, they abandon everyone else. This is very common during testing when they have no bugs left and they could at least be acting as QA but instead start playing games or leaving early.
Up Side: Being exhausted is understandable. "Meditating" by playing a game or doing something else that isn’t thinking about the problem improves their ability to fix their own bugs and improves endurance.
The Irrelevant Score Keeper Down Side: These people love to point out facts which just don't help things such as the observation that time is passing. For example: "Oh my god! We’ve already worked on this for 20 minutes!"
Up Side: Sometimes everyone has lost track of progress and needs to be reminded that any solution is better than no solution.
The 4th Quarter Perfectionist Down Side: These people try to reengineer things after tons of testing has been completed. Their favorite phrase is: "This is so ugly its going to break." despite the fact that all testing shows that it isn't. They inevitably introduce more problems than they fix.
Up Side: They may be right, they see a failure that hasn’t been tested. (The right response to this is to have it tested as opposed to preemptively fixing it). They may be saving time in the long run if the product is going to be reused for many generations and fixing it now saves "backward compatibility" hacks in the future.
The 1st Quarter Hacker Down Side: These engineers hobble a system together quickly that barely solves the problem. Often the entire problem is not yet fully understood and yet they act like their overly specific solution is actually a general one. Time expense is shifted to later in the project when the early solution has to be ripped out and replaced. These early solutions often create a false sense of progress, especially to those outside of the project (sales & marketing for example) which can have extremely high collateral costs.
Up Side: Quick prototypes are invaluable for analysis, but shouldn’t be confused with the final product.
The Rube Goldberg Down Side: Creates incredibly complex solutions to simple problems. This is often due to a lack of experience or a resistance to research.
Up Side: Some problems only have complex solutions. Often a simple solution appears possible but turns out to be a mirage only after significant work has been done. Some complex-looking systems are in fact simple due to extra systems that are glued on such as user interface.
The Prototype Pinstriper Down Side: Loves to apply polish to unfinished projects. They spend time making something look pretty (i.e. putting on the pinstripes) before the product is working. The polish inevitably "rubs off" and must be reapplied several times before the project is complete.
Up Side: Keeping a project looking good keeps everyone excited about it. This is especially valuable for maintaining the excitement of sales, marketing, and investors types.
The Rough Cutter Down Side: The opposite of The Prototype Pinstriper, these people are only interested in the overall feel of the solution and lose interest when the details have to get done.
Up Side: Experience often creates Rough Cutters because the "details" are frequently the same on every project and the seasoned engineers lose interest in the solved wheel. The experienced engineer’s time can be more efficiently used on the next project instead of the details of the last.
The Holy Warrior Down Side: These people believe that there is one way, the way, that every problem must be solved. As far as the Holy Warrior is concerned, there are no unsolved problems there are only engineers that don’t know the solutions.
Up Side: Is often justified by experience. May prevent "reinvent the wheel syndrome" and expensive escapades by less experienced team members.
The Magician’s Apprentice a.k.a: In Software Engineering: "It’s in the libraries"
Thanks to: Scott Cronce
Down Side: These people believe that all which can not be seen is magic. When queried about the operating principle of a critical component they respond: "It’s magic." Another favorite phrase is "I don’t know how it works, and I don’t want to know." The most destructive aspect of the Magician’s Apprentice is that they refuse to diagnose any problem which might reveal the inner workings less they find out that it isn’t magic after all.
Up Side: At least they aren’t reinventing the wheel.
Quote: signals the beginning of a fundamental change of the global view of the US as a financial superpower.
This has been on the radar screen for quite a few years in the international business community. China is the financial superpower and will remain this way for many, many years to come, unfortunately. Since I have so much time before retirement it gives me a great chance to buy low so not all is lost for everyone.
In my industry this is entirely true. Actually if you look at the local WalMart shelves, China is listed on the Country of origin for 80% of the items stocked. A collapse in the US economy means that China loses a large purchaser of it's goods. That is why the Global banks are jumping in and trying to stabilize things. They NEED the US to be healthy. Maybe...just maybe the US leadership regardless of Party affiliation will realize that we NEED to have equal and fair trade with other Countries. These ships leaving our ports to go back to their native countires need to be as full as they are with their products when they get here.
Yes, our greed as a Nation has played heavily into what we are seeing today. There is plenty of blame for everyside to share.
The below article puts much of the blame on the board of directors. Here are some excerpts:
But the people who are most responsible for the massive meltdowns of these institutions are the boards of directors.
Their sole responsibility is to act as fiduciaries for the shareholders in managing risk. They not only failed to perform this task but indeed, in their approval of outrageous pay plans with perverse incentives, they all but guaranteed the current disaster.
I am a capitalist. I love it when executives earn boatloads of money. But it infuriates me when they get it without earning it.
At Merrill Lynch, former CEO Stanley O'Neal received total compensation of more than $91 million for 2006, according to The Corporate Library's calculations. He was given that package based on performance numbers that came out before nearly $23 billion in write-downs by the company.
If the executives' compensation is tied to the volume of business rather than the quality of business, we should expect dealmakers to be more attentive to the number of transactions than the value they create. This is the basis for much of the sub-prime mess, whose collateral damage is taking down the biggest firms on Wall Street.
At Merrill Lynch, former CEO Stanley O'Neal received total compensation of more than $91 million for 2006, according to The Corporate Library's calculations. He was given that package based on performance numbers that came out before nearly $23 billion in write-downs by the company.
O'Neal received more than $160 million in stock and retirement benefits while shareholders lost more than 41 percent of their investment value over the year. Three executives brought in to Merrill less than a year ago will share a $200 million payment as they turn over the company to Bank of America in a last-minute deal to help it survive.
American International Group (AIG) replaced CEO Martin Sullivan after the company posted losses for two consecutive quarters totaling $13 billion. Sullivan's contract entitled him to about $68 million. His replacement, a board member who served as CEO for three months before the company was taken over by the government, will get as much as $7 million.
The boards of directors approved pay that was completely disconnected to performance. This, after all, is the world of the ultimate oxymoron: the "guaranteed bonus." So we should not be surprised that executives took the money and ran.
The people who insisted that government regulation interfered with the perfect efficiency of the markets are now getting bailed out by taxpayers with some walloping welfare checks.
If you are sick of working for corp. America, like i was 5 years ago, with all the BS why don't you start your own business? I did and it was worth every drop of blood, sweat, and tears I shed. But remember one thing... you will still have a Boss, it's called Customers (if you want to be successful). I also get frustrated by the overall economic health of our great country but I chose to spend my time changing what I could: myself and my families future, rather than stewing over issues which I have very little or no control over. We've all heard what we are suppose to do with all those lemons...
Quote: signals the beginning of a fundamental change of the global view of the US as a financial superpower.
This has been on the radar screen for quite a few years in the international business community. China is the financial superpower and will remain this way for many, many years to come, unfortunately. Since I have so much time before retirement it gives me a great chance to buy low so not all is lost for everyone.
In my industry this is entirely true. Actually if you look at the local WalMart shelves, China is listed on the Country of origin for 80% of the items stocked. A collapse in the US economy means that China loses a large purchaser of it's goods. That is why the Global banks are jumping in and trying to stabilize things. They NEED the US to be healthy. Maybe...just maybe the US leadership regardless of Party affiliation will realize that we NEED to have equal and fair trade with other Countries. These ships leaving our ports to go back to their native countires need to be as full as they are with their products when they get here.
Yes, our greed as a Nation has played heavily into what we are seeing today. There is plenty of blame for everyside to share.
Back in January I went to India to train our employees there. Every morning two business newspapers were brought to my room. The headline story would always be about the US economy and if/when it would go into a recession and how quickly India would follow because of the ridiculously high exports to the US. It seems most everybody hates our guts (unless of course they need our protection), but they all sure what our economy to grow.
I just have a hot tip.... buy 3M & Best Buy, 2 Minnesota companies at some very low prices these days. Jon is right about buying as much as you can afford to right now.
big G
-------------------- You can tell how big a person is, by what it takes to discourage them! "Hooks"
Quote: If the leftist media was not constantly shoving negative news down your throats, most “Average” Americans would see little to no day to day effect based on what happens on Wall Street.
-------------------- Steve Plantz ~ In-Depth Outdoors Field Staff
I’ve lost so much in value since this slide started that between this market and gas prices being what they are, I needed to put myself in a better frame of mind. So I decided to replace my gas guzzling 2005 115 hp Yamaha 4 stroke outboard with a more fuel efficient 2009 E-TEC 130DPLSE. The rig should be out of the shop this Friday. Those lucky enough to witness the maiden run will in all likelihood see a 17’ Pike leap clear out of the water!
Hopefully bottom is soon. The market dropped faster today than a 3 oz snapweight thru water. But i agree once the bottom is found it will be a good time to get in and plenty of time to grow before retirement.
-------------------- Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
Quote: Congrats! We can buy our way out of this! Remember, out of every depression comes a period of financial bliss.
We can only hope we find the bottom before too long.
I have been in the market long enough to know not to panic. I did not sell any equities to make this purchase, actully, I borrowed I DA Woman's piggy bank and I, of course, have every intention of repaying it when my ship comes in!
Quote: I’ve lost so much in value since this slide started that between this market and gas prices being what they are, I needed to put myself in a better frame of mind. So I decided to replace my gas guzzling 2005 115 hp Yamaha 4 stroke outboard with a more fuel efficient 2009 E-TEC 130DPLSE. The rig should be out of the shop this Friday. Those lucky enough to witness the maiden run will in all likelihood see a 17’ Pike leap clear out of the water!
congrats on the new rig. I heard from a number of folks that the E Tecs are sweet. I just purchased a new (to me anyways) gps/plotter, gonna be out on the Croix a few days this week.
"The Perfect Storm"
. This will be a very hard life lesson for a lot of people.
The rig should be out of the shop this Friday. Those lucky enough to witness the maiden run will in all likelihood see a 17’ Pike leap clear out of the water!