Steve DeMars
|
|
I visited with a National Park Service Ranger on Saturday while fishing upstream of Stillwater. Due to the possible spread of zebra mussels into the upper reaches of the St Croix, the National Park Service has restricted most boat traffic originating downstream from passing the Arcola Railroad Bridge - mile 28.6. The restricted area is clearly marked with bouys and signs. I mentioned to him that I have witnessed some people passing right by the bouys and heading upstream. He told me to spread the word - they will ticket anyone passing the restricted area and that the ticket carries a mandatory appearance in court with a $500 fine penalty.
I thought I would pass on the warning. That is a pretty hefty fine and I see people blowing past the high bridge heading upstream all the time. Early in the spring you may be able to get away with it but the upstream limit is clearly marked with bouys now and the rangers are patrolling.
|
onestout
|
|
I thought that rule had been in place for several years, has anything changed?
|
HaywardBound
|
|
Quote:
the National Park Service has restricted most boat traffic originating downstream from passing the Arcola Railroad Bridge - mile 28.6.
Are boats allowed to travel downstream past the bridge then back upstream? I've seen boats do that quite a bit.
--------------------
Jon
IDO Toolbar
|
Steve DeMars
|
|
I've been told that some of the riparian landowners along the river upstream have been given permits to allow them back and forth travel. You can put your boat in upstream and come down but if you cross the boundary you are not supposed to go back up.
|
Steve DeMars
|
|
Quote:
I thought that rule had been in place for several years, has anything changed?
No, nothing has changed. Some folks have been traveling upstream early in the year before the bouys are out. Mostly fishermen chasing white bass upstream. They were getting away with it but after Memorial Day all the enforcers are out and the bouys are out so everyone best be warned. When he told me a $500 fine I thought it was a good idea to let everyone know about it.
|
The Chucker
|
|
ok, ok gotta be the devils advocate here...someones gotta
it sounds obserd to me that they restrict the travel of boats, the zebs are already in the system and are going to make their way their eventually, so i have to ask- why bother? im not trying to piss anyone off but maybe there is something im missing here. sure we can possibly delay the enevitable but???? if they are allowing some permit traffic that will then potentially spread them too.
I dunno, thats just me. maybe someone can explain what im missing.
--------------------
This is why we can't have nice things...
|
NuGe_TKE_512
|
|
the reason for the restricted travel is to try to drastically slow the pread of the zebras because the upper st.croix holds many endangered varieties of mussels, some of which are only found in the st.croix and if the zebras made it to them they would kill of these endangered mussels
Also nothing has changed with the rule and watch out because the rangers are out on that strecth around five days a week and if any other park service employees such as maintainance workers see boats cross the line they can write down the registration number and you'll get a ticket in the mail
|
Briank
|
|
Quote:
the upper st.croix holds many endangered varieties of mussels, some of which are only found in the st.croix and if the zebras made it to them they would kill of these endangered mussels
IF they are so endangered...why would they allow any travel?
--------------------
Briank's Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
'09 Photo's<<
|
KD70CHEV
|
|
Yeah it sounds like another Red Lake deal to me.Would'nt any boat travel spread the mussels? I am still pissed I cant boat on the whole area of Red Lake. KD
|
Ferny
|
|
It's another multi-million dollar program against another unstoppable exotic. It will not stop the spread if you can still launch upstream in the restricted area and travel anywhere. There will be tons of money spent on enforcement and education and yet they will spread. They have made it all the way from Europe for Pete sake. What I don't understand is why they put the checkpoint at the highbridge and not a natural big boat barrier of the Arcola sandbar another mile or so upstream? They cut off a ton of good smally area! Don't get me wrong I don't want them here either but is spending our tax money going to stop it? Nope!
I have read that the sheepshead can eat them so release all your sheepskins so they can eat them Zeebs It's the ONLY thing in place that can help.
Ferny.
|
Suzuki
|
|
Quote:
Yeah it sounds like another Red Lake deal to me.Would'nt any boat travel spread the mussels? I am still pissed I cant boat on the whole area of Red Lake. KD
Not like Red. Nothing is like Red 
You can still fish upper Croix. You just need to launch your boat there. In that "pool" so to speak. I dont like it and remember when I could go past the present barrier but it's really not THAT big of a deal considering all the other chit we have to deal with. ie Red Lake,Operation Dry Water, etc....
--------------------
Mike
|
fish_4_fun
|
|
good post, i understand that some of the people who cross the line are people who are ignorant of the laws, or simply cant read the signs. i know this because i have friends who dont read english that well and somehow manage to get a boat. anyways, i'll help spread the word too. and if any of you guys see any hmong guys especially trying to cross, tell them about the new rule, and these guys can get offended if you speak to loud at them. but i'll help out with the hmong community too, especially those who dont speak english too well.
|
plungepool
|
|
Quote:
It's another multi-million dollar program against another unstoppable exotic. It will not stop the spread if you can still launch upstream in the restricted area and travel anywhere. There will be tons of money spent on enforcement and education and yet they will spread. They have made it all the way from Europe for Pete sake. What I don't understand is why they put the checkpoint at the highbridge and not a natural big boat barrier of the Arcola sandbar another mile or so upstream? They cut off a ton of good smally area! Don't get me wrong I don't want them here either but is spending our tax money going to stop it? Nope!
I have read that the sheepshead can eat them so release all your sheepskins so they can eat them Zeebs It's the ONLY thing in place that can help.
Ferny.
I'd say Ferny for President   
|
Turk
|
|
I have read that when mussels are in their larval stage they attach themselves to the gills of fish, and then fall off. If these zebs are on my boat, are they on ducks too?
As you can tell my two cents are that this check point is a pile of BS.
Steve thanks for the info. Turk
--------------------
Croixsippi Guide Service year round trips for walleye and sauger, summer time smallmouth and muskie.
In-Depth Outdoors Reporter
www.croixsippi.com
1-715-377-0006
|
NuGe_TKE_512
|
|
well if you actually knew its not a muti million dollar project its just a line drawn to slow them and ir you weren't so busy gettin pissed off and looked up the matter you know that zebras have only made it as far as a mile or so south of stillwater. the Park service is trying to slow there spread.
|
Briank
|
|
Hmmm...I'm not pissed off...but if they did want to slow the spread...wouldn't they halt all boat traffic??
...and since they haven't made it past Stillwater, wouldn't it be safe to assume (since there is boat traffic from the sippi past the ranger station) that they won't be going up that far? I mean forget the boats, the fish and bird must be transporting them now.
Please, educate us. 
--------------------
Briank's Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
'09 Photo's<<
|
plungepool
|
|
Quote:
well if you actually knew its not a muti million dollar project its just a line drawn to slow them and ir you weren't so busy gettin pissed off and looked up the matter you know that zebras have only made it as far as a mile or so south of stillwater. the Park service is trying to slow there spread.
whoa, there big shooter 
I may be wrong for sayin this but everyone here is just stating their opinion. Which by the way is our god given right under the 1st ammendment This is just a friendly discussion about a topic that most of people here don't completely agree with. I'm sure you pay your taxes and I'm also sure you know that the government isn't what we'd consider the most fiscally responsible group of people 
So just Chillax
Edited by plungepool (07/04/09 07:36 AM)
|
Stillakid2
|
|
God given right via the 1st amendment??? Plungey.... you just gave me a good chuckle there! Been from Genesis thru Revelation and I don't remember reading the 1st amendment anywhere in between but hey, if it all comes from Him, it still fits! The phrasing just gave me a good chuckle. 
Here's the zebra skinny from when it was a much larger scare than the attention it sees today:
Yes, birds and fish can play a part in the spreading of this invasive mussel but the boaters, unaware of what is hiding in the waters of their livewells are much larger contributors to the spread. The attachment issues aren't any greater from a boat that is launched and landed daily than what we see from fish and birds, which are always on the move. Moored boats increase the threat exponentially and awareness from seasonal dockers is critical. However, being "free" human beings, who like to do as they please, legislation has been implemented to help control or lack of natural conformity....of almost any cause.
Can we prove how much the program has helped? No. But the probabilities are well worth careful consideration.
The biggest reason the zebes haven't gotten that far north naturally is current flow. The St. Croix is actually quite swift for it's size and there are sections north of Stillwater that are too fast for the mussell to control it's own destiny. So far, whatever attaches and detaches from birds and fish hasn't been able to secure a hold in these swifter areas. But again, north of these tighter, swifter areas are currents slow enough to establish a populus and then offspring would flood the currently "zebe-free" areas, increasing possibilities to establish in areas they currently can't get into by fighting the current.
Mix into the equation, a bird's typical flight range and what fish that are actually carrying zebes, have for a migratory range, if they really migrate at all.
Again, the biggest reason for the current lack of establishment is current flow, and that natural obstacle is being accompanied by one measely little measure to help prevent the spread. So far, honestly, the two are holding up quite well. But if we put our selfish desires before the big picture, it can about be guaranteed that some ignoramous will have a live well full of unknown mussells and motor north, continuing to let infested water mix with virgin water, and we'll suddenly have our "inevitable" circumstance while pointing fingers at a failed effort that ticked us off because it caused us a little inconvenience!
I don't get it...... it's fun to have a little adventure but the bulk of our better quality fish are strongly south of Stillwater anyway! If you want to escape the bigger water crowd, simply drive north and stay north, just like any other road trip.
Think big picture and choose "something" over "inevitable nothing". Oh BTW, the area north of the high bridge was predicted in 1996 to have some level of zebra mussell presence by 1999 if this measure wasn't established and enforced. Political propaganda? Scare tactics for tax spending? I don't think we can honestly know but we're 10 years beyond that prediction and zebes are still unreported north of the high bridge. Coincidence? Maybe..... but there might be some merit to the efforts as well.
One last fact..... the level of infestation of the lower St. Croix "pools" has never reached the predicted levels either so..... I think there's still a lot we don't know. But getting upset over it is stupid. When the mussells first invaded, it was believed that something needed to be done and something was. Most of us supported it then so what's our beef now?
I do believe the spread has the potential to be inevitable, but not from birds and fish. I still believe the greatest threat is the livewell, as it's always been, and a dang good reason to only let boaters venture so far.
Just because the "inevitable" hasn't happened doesn't mean we should kill the program and just speed things up, solely for the sake of chasing a fish that is clearly present in other waters.
--------------------
"If guns kill people, I can blame misspelled words on a pencil." - Larry "The Cable Guy".
|
Turk
|
|
Mussels attach themselves to the gills of fish when they are in their larval stage (young)get transported upstream or where ever the fish goes(i.e. walleye spawn) and fall off to spread and multiply.
I am willing to bet Zebs are already in the Taylors Falls and the Marine area.
I do not doubt for a minute that humans spread Zebs from one body of water to the next, from say the Sippi to Minnetonka...but ONCE they are there, it is the fish that spread them, and this is my take on the Croix and the Zebra Mussel check point.
Keep Catchin'
Turk
--------------------
Croixsippi Guide Service year round trips for walleye and sauger, summer time smallmouth and muskie.
In-Depth Outdoors Reporter
www.croixsippi.com
1-715-377-0006
|
Stillakid2
|
|
Quote:
Mussels attach themselves to the gills of fish when they are in their larval stage (young)get transported upstream or where ever the fish goes(i.e. walleye spawn) and fall off to spread and multiply.
You've got a couple holes in your thinking here Turk:
1. What fish migrate to spawning areas after the month of June?
Relativity: This is when zebes fill the water columns with eggs and sperm. Successful fertilizations, according to the studies, take place in 18-90 days. Successful is defined as not only the creation of, but also the established attachment to a substrate conducive to a growth opportunity. In other words, in almost every case, a fertilized egg must be born, migrated, and attached to a favorable substrate environment by September.
After this period, they need the correct growth balances for any further establishment. 2 factors in this recipe is a water temp warmer than 53 degrees Fahrenheit (12 C) and cooler than 32 degrees Celcius (forgot to convert that one). The other is current flow, which is not favored if above 10cm/sec. 20cm/sec have been studied but with enough time exposure, the juvenile detached from the substrate, using the current flow to find a more favorable environment.
2. The eggs that attach themselves to some form of substrate can only survive up to a maximum, under prime conditions, which includes water warmer than 53 degrees Fahrenheit, 240 days.
Relativity: If the egg is fertilized in June, the latest date possible for any level of establishment is early February.
What's the water temp of the St. Croix in February? And this is covering an extremely rare possibility. The only river system reporting this incident is the Ohio, and the study still indicated no establishment from the finding. All other eggs found from April-May on the Ohio were dead.
Naturally, the zebra mussell has to swim through a current slower than 20cm/sec or walk on it's one foot through a current slower than 1.5m/sec.. The main channel current leading up to the high bridge is often faster than 1.5m/sec so the mussell needs some help.
3. The written history of the zebra mussell migration from Russia does not include the migration of fish. When canals were created into Europe, the mussells were discovered to migrate via ship hulls. Establishment took place through the 19th century.
In 1988, they were discovered in Lake St. Clair, via the ballast water of a European vessel.
The continued history of the mussell's migration and new range of establishment is littered with details involving boats and boaters, not fish gills.
Now, the only question that should remain is the first question. What fish migrate for spawn between June and September, in search of waters warmer than 53 degrees? Of the species that qualify this question, what is their migration range and spawning habitat? Will it support effective re-establishment?
When you look at the natural requirements, as they apply to the St. Croix River, northward of Stillwater, the biggest threat is clearly the damage created from moored boats becoming substrate for migration, river cruisers during the summer months traveling in and out of established areas, and livewell/bilge water transfers from established areas mixing into unestablished ecosystems.
Given this information, is it so impossible to see the benefit restricting summer boat traffic?
I'll leave you with a tough question Turk:
What are you after that you're so frustrated by a travel restriction?
My concern is this:
Even if some zebra mussells have gotten into the northern areas like Taylors or Marine, the key point of this writing is ESTABLISHMENT. To date, nothing has been found to be ESTABLISHED north of Stillwater. According to the researchers, any natural establishment in those areas would appear to be very tough, almost impossible. But if we start letting Memorial weekend and later boat traffic travel the entire system freely, we can about be guaranteed a northern establishment because they'll be transported under prime conditions FOR re-establishment.
I truly believe, via researched data, that if we lose the northern sector of the river to established zebra mussell colonies, it will come from a complacent attitude before it comes from any form of substrate.
Every last one of us needs to re-examine and evaluate our ethics regarding this issue. I will stand, researched and confident, that the traffic regulation is a good one. And to be even more honest with ourselves, what's the existing con to my pro regarding this regulation that does not or would not fall into the catagory of some self-serving purpose of convenience?
Gentlemen????
--------------------
"If guns kill people, I can blame misspelled words on a pencil." - Larry "The Cable Guy".
|
WADE74
|
|
I hear the eyes and smallies are bitin good!
|
Steve DeMars
|
|
Quote:
Every last one of us needs to re-examine and evaluate our ethics regarding this issue. I will stand, researched and confident, that the traffic regulation is a good one. And to be even more honest with ourselves, what's the existing con to my pro regarding this regulation that does not or would not fall into the catagory of some self-serving purpose of convenience?
Gentlemen????
Those of you that don't fish the river like some of us river rats are all full of ethical zeal. Your particular ox has not been gored by the NPS. In my case I have all kinds of self-serving convenience complaints the biggest being I have lost access to my favorite fishing waters. Still-a-kid may be willing to give up his access to waters he seldom if ever fished in his ethical zeal but I am maintaining my hard earned right to complain about it to anybody that will listen.
The biggest existing con is that the upstream travel restriction cuts us Stillwater based anglers from fishing some of our best fishing spots on our stretch of water north of the Arcola Railroad Bridge. I am an upstream fisherman and I effectively lost quick and easy access to my most productive cat waters when that upstream restriction went into affect.
I know all about the argument that we can just trailer our boat and launch upstream but that is a pain in the buttocks. The waters I fished I could launch out of Stillwater and just run to my favorite spots.
The ruling stinks for me personally because it has restricted my access to some of the prime fishing waters of the St Croix. They implemented that upstream restriction the year I retired - I was really looking forward to having access to the full river. I've made do on the waters I can fish but I am 100% against the restriction and I for one am not convinced that it has helped at all.
|
Briank
|
|
I'm feeling the passion.
The dry Facts Sheet<<<
Ken's read is much more interesting.
--------------------
Briank's Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
'09 Photo's<<
|
Mike W
|
|
Guess Im on the other side of the fence from you on this Steve. If there is any chance that restricting boat traffic is keeping the Zebs from moving north on the river Im all for it. My family and I use the upper stretch ever summer for hanging out and great swimming. I sure would hate to see this get ruined by colonies of zebs stinking up the area and the kids having to worry about getting cut up on them. Hopefully we can enjoy this for years to come.
Secondly if this keep the tuna boats down river thats fine by me. I have been on the lower croix one time. The way you guys talk about the tuna boats down there I dont think my second trip will be any time soon.
Sorry guys. If you want to fish the upper croix trailer your boat up there.
--------------------
Mike Westman - www.HomeTownplumbing.net
Your twin cities plumbing experts!
|
Turk
|
|
Quote:
My family and I use the upper stretch ever summer for hanging out and great swimming. I sure would hate to see this get ruined by colonies of zebs stinking up the area and the kids having to worry about getting cut up on them.
Mike I see your point, but my family swims and beaches in the Lower St. Croix very often (which on paper the lower croix is supposed to be ruined now and infested with Zebs), and on the beach we never get feet cut by Zeb's, our area isn't infested the way it is portrayed by the NPS.
I hear exactly what Steve is saying!
Also to Ken's point, Ken you cited much pro check point information, but did not address much about mussels attaching themselves to the gills of fish, and yes walleyes may not spawn in the warm water, but fish move ALL year round both upstream and down stream. Does this NPS Zeb check point also stop fish movement?
The Zebs distribute themselves like other mussels in various ways, but fish is a large way (or did they evolve just after the invention of boats???).
An analogy, think of the fish being the wind and the Zebs as the dandelion seed. Or When deer or other animals get seeds (burrs, etc.) hung up on their coat, the seeds are distributed once the animal sheds or picks off the burr.
Yes, boaters brought them here we all know that, but once in the system the fish move them. But the NPS wants motor boaters out and that's the excuse they use to make it so.
The checkpoint is BS!
--------------------
Croixsippi Guide Service year round trips for walleye and sauger, summer time smallmouth and muskie.
In-Depth Outdoors Reporter
www.croixsippi.com
1-715-377-0006
|
Steve DeMars
|
|
You are a lucky guy, Mike. That upstream restriction gave you some prime water without a lot of competition for the resources. I still trailer upstream but it is a hassle I don't like. It is a pain when I'm fishing upstream of Stillwater and I'm within a short distance to some great spots and I cannot just motor to them.
I wouldn't worry about Zebs stinking up the place or cutting your kids feet. Somebody has to show me a place that is happening at on the St Croix before I will believe it. It sure isn't happening anyplace I have seen on the lower St Croix.
The price of prevention sure is not worth the loss of access to some beautiful water and some great fishing opportunities. I guess only a few of us are paying the price so for everybody else that is OK. I've lost easy access to some special places that I thoroughly enjoyed. I realize today what a special loss I've incurred. I feel like I've lost some very personal freedoms that until the restriction I took for granted. I guess there are so few of us that traveled through and to that area from the south that the loss of freedom has just gone unnoticed. I keep hoping the NPS will revisit their decision and reopen that stretch but with today's political climate I don't see that happening in my lifetime.
Edited by Steve DeMars (07/09/09 01:12 PM)
|
RonZych
|
|
Can't we talk directly to the mussels themselves? Surely they would be understanding of our concerns. I believe "mplspug" is a direct descendent of Dr. Dolittle and would be willing to help us out in this matter.
BrianK, What are your thoughts? I believe he first worked his magic on you? Can you contact Pug?
--------------------
Here Fishy,Fishy,Fishy,Quack,Quack.
http://www.sportsmenforchange.org/
|
mplspug
|
|
Zebra mussels tend to clam up when you talk to them. 
--------------------
You can judge a man by how far he holds a fish away from his body.
|
Briank
|
|
Quote:
Can you contact Pug?
I should have known.
--------------------
Briank's Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
'09 Photo's<<
|
Stillakid2
|
|
Steve DeMars.... wow.... sorry I stepped on your toes man. I guess my ethical zeal is unrealistic. Is that accurate?
Back in the early days of the zebra mussell reports, weren't we all concerned for the entire river system? Didn't we all want to know if there was something we could do? I think it was highly attributed to the fact that none of us really knew what the future was going to look like. Anyone who fished the Mississippi was all too familiar with the way the zebes were cutting fishing lines like crazy around the wingdams and all the pictures reporting the power plant problems really gave us an idea of what the St. Croix could become. Only 30-45 minutes away was a picture of conditions we didn't want.
Here we are, no less than 10 years later and even the Mississippi isn't as bad off as it once had been. But the St. Croix never hit the same levels so should we then assume that nothing bad will ever happen?
Steve, I can understand why you're fired up at me, but I have fished to the north and for the fishing I prefer, I have no need to venture north. The better fish are south. But for you, access to your cat spots has been cut off. I don't want to see anyone lose anything but in life, and I know you know this, sometimes we get stepped on and when we do, it's always more vivid for us than it is for those not in the same circumstances. But the world, and nature, and everything about this world, is not based on what's fair. Therefore, I'd appreciate it if you'd realize that I too, have suffered loss in this lifetime and things that once were are no more. My zeal does come with differing circumstances but that doesn't take away from any level of legitimacy over my concerns or opinions.
I don't know if removing the checkpoint would guarantee any level of disaster. I don't know if things would just work themselves out. I'm not sure that anyone knows for sure. But at what point do we cancel the project without really knowing the exact success/failure of the checkpoint? All I know is I love the St. Croix River.....all of it. If the zebes are detrimental to the ecology, I'm against them. Period. If the measures in place have anything to do with why the St. Croix hasn't been overrun by zebes, I'm all for them. If they draw a line at the Hudson railroad bridge, Steve, I'll understand what you're feeling even better but I'm not changing my convictions should something like that come to pass. I live where I live and what happens happens. Comply, protest, or relocate. One of those 3 will be chosen if it does......which should be food for thought when the Silver Carp arrive. 
Turk, re-read the paragraphs about the reproductive cycle compared to fish spawns. The issue of gill attachment is covered there. If the fish are transporting, it still depends on where the zebe lets go and the conditions it becomes subjected to. How many miles from the lift bridge to the high bridge? We've all seen examples of fish migration in spring and fall, both of which work against the zebra mussell expansion. But don't the summer studies show that during the "scatterings" of summer that fish strongly stick to a home area? Yes, fish move but are they moving far enough to transport a young zebra mussell to waters favorable for re-establishment? That's the question we need answered Turk. If we can get proof that host fish are going into favorable waters during the zebra's reproductive months and nothing is coming of it, then the checkpoint is worthless. But without this proof, it's purely emotional and factually unsubstantiated.
According to the conditions required, and the conflicting time tables of zebra reproduction and migratory/range habits of hosting fish, it's unlikely that the fish gills will result in a viable cause for re-establishment north of Stillwater. If summer equals a home feeding area, I think the distance required to get beyond the channels where current is too fast, is too far to be a realistic factor, in this system.
Zebes spread through Erie on fish because the current issue couldn't kill the transfer. But anywhere there's a current too quick, boats become the much, much larger contributor. Hulls of slower boats, bilge water, and livewells.
See what I mean Turk? The fish and zebe reproductive time tables, as applied to the characteristics of the St. Croix river north of Stillwater, doesn't make sense, which rather kills the gills transfer issue. Anywhere else, you'd be dead right!
--------------------
"If guns kill people, I can blame misspelled words on a pencil." - Larry "The Cable Guy".
|
TC River Fan
|
|
ethical zeal...
Main Entry: zeal•ot
Pronunciation: \ˈze-lət\
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Latin zelotes, from Greek zēlōtēs, from zēlos
Date: 1537
1capitalized : a member of a fanatical sect arising in Judea during the first century a.d. and militantly opposing the Roman domination of Palestine
2: a zealous person ; especially : a fanatical partisan <a religious zealot>
Wow, problem with zeal it often turns to zealots. How does one become so smug and close minded?
I spoke to a biologist who works for the company that makes the fish tracking equipment in Isanti. He claims that different species act and migrate differently. Even within a species, such as pike and muskellunge only the dominate fish, the largest, tend to be more territorial. The others move over a much larger range. He has seen movement of over 20 miles during the warm months. It was his feelings that it may have slowed the movement slightly but would not have a major impact on the system.
I do not want to seem harsh but too many people read one or two articles and claim to become experts on a subject. They close out all other views and act holier than thou...drives me crazy. Keep in mind this was only another opinion.
The area already has a natural barrier in the summer, the arcola sand bar, that keeps the big tuna boats from coming north.
Enjoy the St. Croix.
Take care,
Edited by TC River Fan (07/29/09 07:55 AM)
|
Turk
|
|
Ken,
I understand where you are coming from in a love for the river, you know I'm there with you.
I believe the checkpoint is not working and can not work, thanks to the transfer of zebs from fish (gills). I think you over estimate this current flow as a serious barrier to fish movement. I've watched fish, even muskie, swim through shallow fast running water with no trouble at all.
Also there is one side channel, that I know of, other than the Arcola sand bar for fish to use to travel north.
Best regards,
Turk
--------------------
Croixsippi Guide Service year round trips for walleye and sauger, summer time smallmouth and muskie.
In-Depth Outdoors Reporter
www.croixsippi.com
1-715-377-0006
|
Stillakid2
|
|
Here we go.... back to a conversive position.
1. TC, thx for putting in at least one reply to my original question. What fish are making this kind of movement that would jeopardize the efforts of the checkpoint? Pike and Muskie was answered. I was aware that various species vary their spawning times but I was again wondering how that related to waters warmer than 53 degrees. Not sure if I was being referred to as an expert but I'll be the first to say, again, I don't have every answer. Just trying to take what I find and ask good questions....don't need to be an expert to do that.
Turk,
Still wondering, what have you seen that conclusively proves the checkpoint is failing? Specutively, there's no doubt that fish can ruin the effort but who has managed to find what? Or for that matter, is anyone even searching? I'm pretty sure that if you guys can show zebes have managed to re-establish north of that checkpoint, there would be little defense for maintaining it.
Next question. What are we going to do when the silver carp get here...... start an aquatic skeet league?
--------------------
"If guns kill people, I can blame misspelled words on a pencil." - Larry "The Cable Guy".
|
NuGe_TKE_512
|
|
i agree with stillakid if the checkpoint isn't working why has it been their for as long as it has and to prove his point there are no zebra mussles found north of the arcola railroad bridge. i work for the NPS and spend time talking to the resource management team that has spend the last ten years monitoring the zebras spread in the lower St. croix.
I see your guys point (steve, turk) yes these mussels can be spread by fish but the majority are spread by humans and yes it is inconvienient to lose easy access to fishing spots but have you guys ever been down further south? and seen how bad the zebra infestation can be? i grew up on the st. croix and i now spend half my year up by osceola and the other down by dubuque on the missippi and the miss is so bad with zebra shells that you have to wear shoes to walk in the water to avoid cutting your feet. do you guys really want to see this happen to our river?
|
Stillakid2
|
|
Hey guys.... really not trying to stir the pot here but when you're alone in a truck for weeks at a time, the brain has a chance to think and ponder....on the sometimes ridiculous... but I got thinking about the fish gills transporting zebes vs. the current velocity issue.
If a zebe will detach from it's substrate because of a water current being too swift for it's establishment, is it possible that a fish swimming up to 20 miles creates enough current for the zebes to let go? Or for that matter, moored boats could also "shake off" the attached young as well?
The pondering is this:
"IF" these things were found to be true, wouldn't the greatest threat of transfer indeed be that of the livewell?
Haven't the time to chase this down right now but wondering what your guy's take is on the thought or if you have any data that might support/or kill my proposed possibility?
--------------------
"If guns kill people, I can blame misspelled words on a pencil." - Larry "The Cable Guy".
|
Suzuki
|
|
My God. By the time this post goes away there will be zebes in every body of water in the midwest. 
--------------------
Mike
|
shale
|
|
Here are my perceptions:
o At this point, the high bridge checkpoint is a marketing attempt by the DNR to show they are putting up a fight against zebes.
o Gravel/rocky beaches (ex. Troy beach) on the lower croix have about 5 years before the are unswimable.
o There's no reasonable regulation that can keep zebes from ending up in most MN/WI lakes & rivers.
o It's time to upgrade the line and live with them.
--------------------
Dude
|
St Croix Upstream Travel Restriction Warning
