Jared Rypka-Hauer
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OK, so I'm a first-time boat buyer and I've found the boat I want, I just want to make sure I'm not going to end up regretting it... and more about the motor than the boat.
I'm looking at a Smoker Craft Stiletto 17 with a 1988 Mercury 80 elpto. That means the motor is about 20 years old, but at the same time pretty much everything I can find indicates that Mercury motors from that time frame are pretty bulletproof if well maintained and feel pretty confident that it's a good buy.
My issue is that I'm buying it from a marine shop and it's there on consignment, so I'm not sure that they've been thru it, or that they'll be 100% square with me about the details...
It's a single-console 17 footer with pedestals everywhere, nice storage and a really nice trailer (EZ-Loader roller), and the price leaves me room to pick up rod holders, a trolling motor, finder and GPS, etc.
Anyway, I turn to you all for advice because there's no learning experience like someone else's. 
Anybody?
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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Jared Rypka-Hauer
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Photos from the vendor's site.
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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85Lund
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I've got a 1985 merc 115 hp on my Lund Tyee. Its no 2009 Yamaha but it does the trick. The older motors can do just fine if you taker care of them and they were taken care of before you. I got my boat from the guy who bought it new in 1985. He was very particular about the boats care. If you can't talk to the owner then there may be a problem. Have you asked if the owner is available? This might be a good place to start.
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Russ,
A life of learning to think like a fish!
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85Lund
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Will they let you get it on the water before buying it? That would be huge for you too. You will certainly know if it a good runner or not then.
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Russ,
A life of learning to think like a fish!
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Jared Rypka-Hauer
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Quote:
Will they let you get it on the water before buying it? That would be huge for you too. You will certainly know if it a good runner or not then.
Thanks for the input dude. I'm checking to see if the owner or at least the maintenance records are available and if they'll allow a test drive.
That said, the survey is showing some very clear feelings on the subject.  I wonder, though, what people would recommend for a 16-18 foot boat (preferrably closer to 18) specifically for fishing the rivers (St. Croix, MN, Miss) (but also for area lakes from Crystal in Burnsville to Mill Lacs), in the +/- $5000 range?
Maybe I'll have to start a new thread for that... heh
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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James Holst
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Jarad
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if they'll allow a test drive
Tell them the test drive is optional if you get to pay with imaginary money.
A 1988 outboard can be a good purchase. Or it can be a colossal mistake. It really comes down to how the motor was cared for by the previous owner. When it comes to buying a 20+ year old outboard in my opinion there can be NO SALE until you take it to a marine mechanic you trust for a complete inspection. Compression, starter, all electrical, lower unit, etc. If that checks out and the price is right (a 20 year old outboard really isn't going to be worth much in this market) I would have no problem buying a motor of that vintage. And I would treat it as a "throw away" motor. Beyond very small fixes if that motor breaks down, I'd consider it broken. You can get yourself into a spiraling money pit with old motors. Just don't even go there. Do your homework upfront with regards to the inspection and trust your gut. Treat it with kid gloves while you own it and know that a 20+ year old outboard won't last forever.
As for the boat... if it doesn't leak, there's no obvious electric issues, the transom and decks are solid and the livewells work... go for it. I'd actually be more concerned about the trailer to be honest. Old trailers can be a major pain if you the kind of guy that puts on some miles.
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James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host
IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
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Hot Runr Guy
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long story short. I've had (3) Smokercrafts/Sylvans, they always got me home. 3 weeks ago, a friend of mine with a 9 year old 161 Stinger dropped it off at the factory in New Paris IN, the floor had become depressed in one spot. Yesterday, he got a call, it is ready for pick-up, new main floor installed, even converted it to vinyl at no cost to him, completely under warranty.
Pretty good customer service if you ask me.
HRG
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Jared Rypka-Hauer
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Thaks for all the input everyone. I emailed the marine outlet I've been talking to and this is what I got back:
Quote:
The boat was actually bought here earlier this summer. We put the engine on the boat for her, it came of a boat that a pilot had owned for about 10 years. We checked the motor out thoroughly when we took it in on trade, it didn't have spark on one cylinder and the compression was perfect. We had to put in a new stator, which is what controls the spark for the engine. The boat did come back once this summer after she bought it because the horn was going off, we put a new water pump impellar in it. The engine should be good to go, the owner wants to buy a pontoon, that is the reason for selling it.
As far as the test drive goes, no problem. Just let me know when you would want to come bye (sic) and I'll make sure everything is ready with the boat.
I consider the vendor reliable... they've been there for as long as I can remember (which is about 30 years in the same location) and always busy.
I'm starting to think that this is probably a decent deal, pending the test cruise...
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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Nic Habeck
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No test drive, no deal.
No mechanic inspection on the motor, no deal.
Older motors can be great or a huge pain in the rear. My old Johnson 1989 drove me completely nuts when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed up, it ran awesome. It was also super reliable. But it was a one owner, meticulously maintained machine.
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Nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught. ~Author Unknown
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Joe Scegura
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Jared there's nothing wrong with a SmokerCraft other than they will most certainly have a lower resale value than a Lund or an Alumacraft. I found the boat in the pictures for a friend of mine this Spring. It's a 2001 17ft Lund Angler, with 75hp Mercury and a nice Shorelander trailer. He paid $6000 even for it and it's in pretty nice shape. There are great deals to be had out there if you look around. IMO the boat you're looking at is worth about $4000. If it's what you want and in that price range you should be good to go! Good luck.
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Joe Scegura - Joe Scegura's Guide Service
"Walleye, Pike, Muskies & Panfish on Alexandria Area Lakes & Mille Lacs!
Ph# 320-260-9056
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Jesse Krook
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Also make sure you are getting what you want. I bought a boat and 6 months later wished I had bought something else. To this day I regret that boat purchase (even though I loved that boat, it was my 1st). I am looking for another boat and have yet to find what EXACTLY I want. I know what I want and I know what I want to pay for it but I havent found it yet. I am looking at 1 Ranger that I've looked at quite a few times but not 100% sure its gonna do it for me. This has left me boatless for all of the summer but I would rather have what I want than to just settle for something. I WONT regret waiting come time I find what I am after.
Good Luck  Hope everything works out for you
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Everts Fishing Resort
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Jon Jordan
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I'll start this post by saying I am not a fan of Smoker Craft/Sylvan boats. That particular hull design is prone to poor performance and will tend to porpose. Especially if underpowered. What you will probably notice on a test drive is when you try to trim up for speed, the bow will start bouncing. If you trim down to stop the porposing, you toss out a horrendus side spray that will soak you with any kind of side wind.
That Merc is a serious gas hog. Other than that, will probably run another 20 years.
My #1 rule in buying a used boat or car. Take a step back and ask youself this question. "If I change my mind in a week or a month, can I turn around and sell this thing for what I got into it?" If the answer is no, turn and run.
If that thing is priced at $5,ooo. That's way too much in my opinion. $3k to $33oo max. If you have $5k buring a hole in your pocket, why not finance another $3-5k and buy something 15 years newer?
Just my 2 cents.
-J.
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Jesse Krook
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If that thing is priced at $5,ooo. That's way too much in my opinion. $3k to $33oo max. If you have $5k buring a hole in your pocket, why not finance another $3-5k and buy something 15 years newer?
I have to agree with that. I was at a dealer the other day and for a brand new $25,000 boat with 10% down payments were $144 a month. I have fished out of smoker crafts, mirro crafts and Alumacrafts and have came to the conclusion that I wont own anything that ends in craft other than a Alumacraft or Yar-craft
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Everts Fishing Resort
Edited by jjkrooked (11/13/09 02:37 PM)
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Jason Sullivan
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My #1 rule in buying a used boat or car. Take a step back and ask yourself this question. "If I change my mind in a week or a month, can I turn around and sell this thing for what I got into it?" If the answer is no, turn and run.
Jon is giving you great advice here. It's a good way to remove the emotion surrounding a boat purchase. We all want to get into that first (or next) boat, but it has to make sense for you.
Sully
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Jason Sullivan - In-DepthOutdoors.com Field Staff
Bulldog Strike Sensors
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The Chucker
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Jared, I would say $3500,$4000 tops for that age of a boat considering the following... Sorry if I'm bursting your bubble man.
1. engine passed outside mech. test
2. passes your test drive expectations
3. trailer rollers and bolts are all good, no wore out parts on roller bunk pivot points.
bearings on wheels spin fine and not grinding or are not excessivley loose.
4. are all the seats so leaned back as the drivers seat? it lookes like it might be bent???
4b. trailer and boat lights, also look for wire repairs
5. remember you are going to have to stick $$$ into it setting it up.
Good graph/gps-700
anchor and rope-70
batteries??? 100 each
life jackets -depends
Trolling mtr? i saw the mount, is it in pkg
radio?
Just thoughts man. best luck
Remember, nobody is buying boats (or much for that matter) now espicially this time of year, you should have some bargining power.
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This is why we can't have nice things...
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Koldfront Kraig
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Keep looking Jared.
Plenty of good boats in your price range.
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They call me netboy...have net will travel
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*Nick*
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It's a buyer's market, sure everyone says they'll be higher in spring, but I think the market will really dictate that... Myself I'd be looking for a newer motor. Sure it may be bullet proof and solid, but you may have trouble finding people to work on them too.
Eitherway I wouldn't be in a huge rush, I think there are a lot of nice boats available, I'd be well research and ready to buy when one comes along.
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T Ellis
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Jarad,
The most important move on this old of an outboard is to take it to an independent marine mechanic and have a leak down test performed on each cylinder!!! Compression tests do not always show true results but a leak down test will truely tell you the condition of the cylinders, rings, etc. VERY IMPORTANT! Besides this test the mechanic can also check over more obvious possible problem area's on a used outboard. I just had a buddy buy a boat that had compression tests that looked ok for the year but after less than 20 hours on the motor is looking at a rebuild which all could have been avoided with a leak down test. Call any reputable marine mechanic and ask i bet they confer compression tests are old technology and unreliable the best most accurate is a leak down test on each cylinder. My thoughts are keep the money for a newer rig even if you have to finance some you will be much happier in the long run. You don't want it to become a: B.O.A.T "Break Out Another Thousand"
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A truly rich person is not one who has the most but one who needs the least.
Edited by T Ellis (11/13/09 04:02 PM)
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Jared Rypka-Hauer
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Eitherway I wouldn't be in a huge rush, I think there are a lot of nice boats available, I'd be well research and ready to buy when one comes along.
But... but... but... there's still open water!!! I wanna get OUT there and finish this season out hardcore, yanno?
Still, everyone here makes really good points and I appreciate all the info on value and such. Honestly, I got a buddy pushing me toward a pontoon, but that's not really what I want. What _I_want_ is more along the lines of an aluminum 18-19' double console with a 115 behind it. I have a kid and a wife and we're planning to have another next year. My main fishing buddy has 2 kids at home, so I want a boat that has a lot of room and yet a lot of GO GO GO.
I just doubt I'm gonna be able to find that in my price range which is in the $5000 to $10,000 range, closer to 5. I want to save room in the budget for all the goodies like a Lowrance and all that happy crappy.
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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Jared Rypka-Hauer
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Jared, I would say $3500,$4000 tops for that age of a boat considering the following... Sorry if I'm bursting your bubble man.
Not at all! I asked because I was looking for real guidance here... where better to go than to a whole room full of guys who've been there and done that? I mean, the very very best kind of experience is someone else's!
I was gonna name everyone who gave advice on the price of this boat and so on, but there's too many... everyone is giving good input. Something I've come to expect on IDO.
They've got $4495 on that boat as-is, with the sonar seats and all, so I think it'd hit about $5k including taxes. Sounds like that's at least $500 too much, eh?
You guys are _awesome_. 
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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Jared Rypka-Hauer
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Quote:
Quote:
If that thing is priced at $5,ooo. That's way too much in my opinion. $3k to $33oo max. If you have $5k buring a hole in your pocket, why not finance another $3-5k and buy something 15 years newer?
I have to agree with that. I was at a dealer the other day and for a brand new $25,000 boat with 10% down payments were $144 a month. I have fished out of smoker crafts, mirro crafts and Alumacrafts and have came to the conclusion that I wont own anything that ends in craft other than a Alumacraft or Yar-craft
I don't think financing is going to work. We had a really bad year in 2006 (I was an independent computer programmer and ended up in a really bad contract) and we're just now starting to dig our way out of that. I don't think our credit rating is up to it at this point.
Then again, I suppose it's worth a try...
I think the best advice here, though, is to not be in a rush and not settle for something less than what I'm looking for.
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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Jared Rypka-Hauer
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Quote:
I'll start this post by saying I am not a fan of Smoker Craft/Sylvan boats. That particular hull design is prone to poor performance and will tend to porpose.
Yeah, I had another Smoker Craft once, 14', deep v, and it did porpoise a bit. Good point. But sheesh I loved that boat. I ended up having to sell it moving out of my folks' house into an apartment. Growing up's a *itch.
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That Merc is a serious gas hog. Other than that, will probably run another 20 years.
In this sort of situation I'd rather have a tank than a Civic.
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Just my 2 cents.
-J.
If I can take your 2 cents and save $1000, I'd say that's a pretty good deal, no?
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Whoever first said "Better a bad day fishing than a good day at work" is the wisest person who ever lived.
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311Hemi
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With what you describe you want....I would personally say no on this deal and spend some time searching around.
This boat in on CL for $6000 with a 115 Johnson. It's a 1996 Crestliner.....and sounds like it would be more in line with what you say you are wanting. I found this in 5 min after looking at your post......there are a lot of boats out there if you look.
Do yourself a favor and take your time. There are sweet deals out there to get you into a NICE boat for 5000-
$10000.
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B Robinson
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Quote:
That particular hull design is prone to poor performance and will tend to porpose. Especially if underpowered.
I agree with a lot of what's been said on this subject, including this. That being said, I did own a Smokercraft Stinger at one point (which is now owned by fellow IDOer Chris Augustyn), and I was actually surprised at how well it did. I know Chris has demanded a lot out of it and it's still going strong. Of course, it's a newer (1999) model, too, so keep that in mind.
I also agree -if you're able to affor something different like a Lund, Crestliner, or even Alumacraft, along with a few others, I would definitely suggest that. Lots of good advice on this thread as well, and add this to it: always spin the prop while the boat is on the trailer. Look at the prop shaft- it shouldn't move/wobble.
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When Hugh Hefner dies, will anyone be dumb enough to say "he's in a better place now"?
Brian
fishhunter44
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joshbjork
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Jared, there are so many boats for sale right now............. People need $. I think the market is about 1/2 of the springtime market right now. Economy is on the toilet and not that many have cash to spend on boats that could be covered in snow next week.
The motors are all about condition. I think you should buy what you can afford to fix if the worst case happens. That's just me though. More recent motors have more parts and more stuff to go wrong, not that anything has to go wrong but newer is more expensive to fix also.
Get on iboats and read. Maybe you've already done that. On anything that isn't recent, you'll want new fuel hoses, etc. No big deal and that's part of the maintenance.
It doesn't sound like that shop "went through" the motor very well because impellars are a wear item and that's about the first thing you would change out if you were trying to make something sea worthy. A bad stator might have been caused by something simple like loose battery cables. I'm reaching there but it's nice to know why bad things happened last time.
If you get a compression check and the LU pressure tested you get a test drive in and check for leaks, etc, then at least you're trying hard to be a smart buyer. Test drive the heck out of it. 10 minutes of running still on the trailer type test drives don't mean much. I just did a too short test drive and although no damage was done, I had to spend a bunch of time trying to chase down some problems that would have been evident had I idled the motor longer on the test drive. Drive it like you stole it because you want it to fail before it belongs to you.
No test drive? Salvage price. Lots of people pay too muchfor stuff like that and pay for it later.
There isn't much to a trailer but a mismatch of boats and trailers can cause a headache.
How handy are you? I think that greatly influences what suits people.
Good luck and be smart
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keepcasting
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Jarad, you are getting some good advise on here. I actually scoured the web and some dealers for about a year before finding exactly what i wanted at the price I wanted. I am really glad that I didn't compromise on what I wanted just b/c I was anxious to get out on the water. With IDO, Craigslist, etc. you have all winter to check out deals and find exactly what you want. For $5K you can probably find a early 90's Lund, Crestliner, or Alumacraft which I would all take over a Smokercraft. The other nice thing about buying via an online classified is that you might be able to do some more negotiating. That just doesn't seem like that good of a deal! Good luck, you will be stoked when you actually do pull the trigger.
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Jason
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yamadog
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is that boat sitting at lacannes if so they are great to deal with but for that kind of money you should be able to find something newer just my opinion
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Briank
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My 2 cents.
Give Diane a call at Sampson Marine. Then Joe a call at Al's.
Tell them what your looking for and to keep an eye out for you if they see something of quality.
Many times places like the above sold the boat to the original owner and have service them through out the years. For one reason or other they are put up for sale and very good prices.
Al's and Sampson's stand behind their reputation and as with all boat dealers right now, their reputation is critical.
Consignment bothers me in the case of older boats. I know I'm using a broad paint brush, but if the dealer wouldn't trade it in....I would sure find out why. 
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Briank's Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
Photo's From the 2009 Season<<
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DocFrigo
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Patience.
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AllenW
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Patience.
That's it in a nutshell..
I haven't a clue whether its the boat for you or not, only you do, sit in it long enough to see if your gonna like the lay out, how comfortable is it, weather protection?, ease of operating, storage, live wells, electric wiring and options..you have prewired harness's for the stuff you want to add?
How mechanical are you and can you afford any major repairs?
Then take a deep breath and spend a weekend or two wandering from one boat dealer to the other, check CL for local buys write all the feasible options down, then take a capt'n coke, sit down and look all them over and see if you can narrow done to just a couple, go look again...then buy.
Take pictures also.
I've heard way to many, " I wish I would have bought....", don't be one of them...take your time.
Just my thoughts.
Al
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Gonna get a boat, Got a couple questions
