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waagoshquay

DNR Abuse Stories


I am researching for stories, incidents that have occurred in the past several years of DNR abuse. Infringement of constitutional 4th amendment rights. If you have any incidents or know of any in the past several years, I would like to hear them/ read them. With our getting preachy here, but with ground swell organizations forming to present to legislature on the over-power of zealous DNR Officers we need your input, stories and incidents. you may email them to dnr.abuse@gmail.com. We will reply - thank you.
Waagoshquay


James HolstAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I've been lucky... I've never had anything but fantastic interactions with the DNR. And I really don't know of anyone personally that has had any issues. You hear stories... but you know how accurate 2nd and 3rd hand info can be.

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James Holst
In-Depth Outdoors Pro Staff
In-Depth Outdoors TV - Watch Episodes Online Here!
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Sweet

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Nothing but good things from any C.O. I've ever met.

btomlin

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I've never had a problem with the DNR. I think it is prob. one of the most thankless jobs you can do. I'm friends with most of the DNR guys that are local to my area. I'm sure it wouldn't matter friends or not if I was into breaking the established game laws.

JLDII

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Welcome to IDO!

Interesting first post. Why don't you tell us more about these ground swell organiztions? I've never heard of any groups like that, at least not looking into those things you are asking us about. Have you been a victim?

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Free speech is only a freedom if no nobody censor's it.


chomps

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


boy! nothing but positive here, even some MNDNR people help get you on a hot bite or get you an update on how the bite is on a particular lake. My guess, just a guess, those doing the complaining were breaking the law to begin with??? Duh!

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Pete-Dude! It's Beef!


big G

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I have had several interactions with the DNR on the fishing side, Snowmobiling, Hunting, ATV'ing and not once did they act in an unprofessional manner or would I categorize as harassing. They are doing a job and I think the only people that have issues with them, are the ones that are getting busted. I say keep up the good work MN DNR

big G

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big G

You can tell how big a person is, by what it takes to discourage them! "Hooks"




Pickeral Boy

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Thanks for joining IDO. I see this is your first post Mr. Waagoshquay. There is most likely some real stories out there for people to share with you. I would suggest that you identify yourself. Real name, real phone number, and a verified email address for this type of request from IDO members. It would be better optics for your very personal request, which you may present to government one day. You may be entirely legit. Or you may be a 14 year old kid in his basement pulling pranks.

Chris Granrud

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Our local CO is a class act. Going by the initials D.K.!! I see him all the time on the water. He is dilligent with his job even though we know each other and see each other often on the ice or water. He treats my customers and myself with respect. Yet he has the capability of performing the duty of his position!! Trust me I haven't always had the same experiences with others, but DK is a model CO for all to follow!! Doubt he follows these threads, but if he does Keep up the good work. Put the down on the bad guys, and keep doing the great job protecting our resource!!

Dan Larson

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


One time up at North Garrison I had a run in with one of the creel survey interns. She was around 20, khaki shorts, DNR windbreaker, clipboard, pen, blonde hair, blue eyes, nice spring tan... She only asked to see my fish, I was shattered.

Wait a minute, what was this thread about again?

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<"}))))))>< DTM______The Abominable Snowman___Threadkiller

"We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold."

Hunter S. Thompson


Ralph Wiggum

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


You've got to be kidding me. While I have encountered a CO having a bad day once or twice, for the most part, the COs I have dealt with are great people. I'm not gonna fault someone or "start a movement" for having a bad day.

They're out there doing a tough job. Keep within the laws and you've got absolutely nothing to worry about.

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~Ryan (my name is not really Ralph Wiggum )


josh runksmeier

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Nothing but good from the DNR for me. They all have been helpfull.

Scott Steil

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


There are two sides to every story!

Gary

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


It is a thankless job.
Nobody wants to do it either, atleast nobody here on this site out of 10,000 members.

Cops are there to protect and serve the people.
COs are there to protect and serve the resource, and every encouter they have in the field is with a citizen who is ARMED!

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G-


Cougareye

DNR Abuse Stories


I get stopped on the St. Croix by patrol boats from 5 different agencies (Coast Guard, State Park, WI, MN, and Washington County). I have had ALL positive experiences with them.

Eric


TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I find it amazing that only people who havent been messed with think everything is just great, and that people who HAVE been messed with are some kind of "anti-govenment" violaters who are just angry they got caught. A simple way to start a conversation such as this would be to google the 4th amendment, especially the phrase "probable cause". Please consider this before you post!!!
As my screen name would imply, I am not of the "hook and bullet" crowd, but am an avid outdoorsman.
I spend allot of time in the outdoors, both local and abroad. My biggest challenge is to get away from people, and find places of peace and solitude. I consider fishing, of which I do allot of, a good exscuse to be out on a lake.
If I am not breaking a law, or endangering myself or others, or somehow denying others use and enjoyment of public and private property, there should be no reason for contact with LE. ( Law Enforcement). I will elaborate in further posts. Until then, dont mind getting your boat searched, after all, if you have nothing to hide, you should not mind these minor infringements on your privacy. And if they damage your property? Hey, its all good. After all, its all to keep us safe, and to protect the resource!
And besides, you MUST have done something wrong to get this unwanted attention. Maybe you didnt salute the Game Warden at the boat launch, maybe it was the bumper sticker on your truck. Or, maybe a certain LE entity has a budget that allows for officers to spend time harrassing people, rather than fullfilling the goals and mission statement of the Dept of public service of in which they work for. This will only get worse, because now, they get money from HomeLand Security, and actually have a branch closely affiliated with that agency. Believe in States rights to govern themselves? Get ready for the Federal Boater Picture ID. Another reason for LE to approach you, and thus begin a fishing expedition of thier own. Wisconsin is one of the FEW states "VOLUNTARILY" adopting this legislation.


big G

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


This comes up once a year... I don't have to open my livewell.... anytime I have been checked, they have asked politely to see my fish, and you know what, I have no problem showing them, because I won't keep illegal/over the limit of fish. Do I have to let them see them, no... do I think it is silly to not let them see them, if I am not doing anything wrong, because "I DON'T HAVE TO" ??? Yes, but everybody has that right. If you are getting harassed, then use the legal channels, pretty simple. You don't have to post on a forum, looking for more stories, take care of your own. Painting the DNR with a broad brush, is covering something up that it shouldn't. This post is a form of "trolling" to me....

big G

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big G

You can tell how big a person is, by what it takes to discourage them! "Hooks"




Ralph Wiggum

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Hmmm, might Treehugger be the same dude as the original poster?

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~Ryan (my name is not really Ralph Wiggum )


James HolstAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I know all too well how the 4th amendment protects me and how it applies to interactions with CO's. I have absolutely no issue with showing the DNR officer my fish, fishing license or safety equipment.

I will tell you this... the CO's I run into always ask "can I see your fish?" I have the opportunity to decline but I would never do so. I actually enjoy the interaction and often spend additional time talking with the officer if his workload allows. To be honest I would like to see many, many more CO's on the water on patrol keeping tabs on those utilizing the resource and would pay more for a fishing license if I knew that money would go directly towards enforcement personnel.

You have an axe to grind and it chaps you when other anglers don't see things your way. We get that. I hope you can accept that fact that your opinion of the DNR is NOT shared by the majority of anglers and boaters. But I do respect your right to your opinion and your campaign to try and change how the CO's operate on the water. That's how democracy works. Best of luck to you.

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James Holst
In-Depth Outdoors Pro Staff
In-Depth Outdoors TV - Watch Episodes Online Here!
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James HolstAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Quote:

I will elaborate in further posts. Until then, dont mind getting your boat searched, after all, if you have nothing to hide, you should not mind these minor infringements on your privacy.




You're not "educating" us to anything we don't already know. This has been discussed annually and in circles. You can do a site search for past discussions but I can save you the effort. Based on the previous interactions I feel it safe to say that people here actually like to see the CO's on the water and don't have issue with the interactions. Some crazy guys, like me, actually enjoy it.


JLDII

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Another first time poster, welcome to IDO!

We sure are getting a lot of new members today!

We as outdoorsmen respect and accept the jobs these CO's are asked to do. We also accept and understand the need for them to be able to search boats, autos, or anything else in order to fulfill their sworn duty, even if without warrant in hand. In fish and game enforcement, if you refuse to allow the officer to inspect your harvest, or lack there of, you are by refusing them, providing them with the probable cause needed to effect that search.

That is the way most every true outdoorsman wants it done.

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Free speech is only a freedom if no nobody censor's it.


Jason Halfen

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Right on, big G.

I have had nothing but positive interactions with the DNR or other agencies who are interested in protecting the resource AND those who enjoy it.

You know what I do when I am contacted by a warden or similar?

I reel up my lines.
I greet them in a professional manner...I am a professional, just as they are.
I have my license and boat registration in hand, ready to give to them. My guests or clients do the same.
I display my PFDs (usually worn), show them my throwable and my extinguisher.
I show them any fish I have in possession, and I measure them on my ruler for them.
I politely, truthfully, and professionally answer any questions I am asked.
And meer moments later, I wish them well and get back to fishing.

If you choose to make things difficult for an officer, they can certainly make things difficult for you. If your goal is to enjoy a day on the water or in the field with friends or family, then make your interaction with a warden a positive experience, rather than an adversarial one. It's ALWAYS worked for me, and I interact with them all the time.


troutman

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I once read that being a CO is the most dangerous law enforcement job that there is.That being said,you'd think that their job would get the best of them now and then and you'd run into a crabpatch or two umongst them.Maybe they're out there but,my experiences with them have been at worst case,polite but short and to the point to,very friendly and helpful,quite willing to share their knowledge with you.Nothing but good things to say about every CO I've ever met.

Timmy

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


There are bad wardens out there, just the same as bad cops, bad teachers, bad doctors, and bad people in general etc...... Most of my interactions have been decent, and I can honestly say that I have earned most of the hassles I have had.......

On the other hand, I have had more negatve experiences with federal park rangers than positive...... Not sure why, but in VNP, the Apostle Islands, and Isle Royale, I have had some run-ins with the rangers that resulted in no tickets or warnings, where I felt like the ranger was a real [censored]. Not all rangers were like this, but there have been a couple(especially at IR).....and repeated interactions with the same rangers yielded the same results..... So yes - I have a pretty dim view of them in general, but a generally positive view of wardens.

Tim

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I'd rather be in the boat with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.


Randy Wieland

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I have a few things that came to mind as I read this.

First and foremost, WI DNR -David W. (local warden to my area) is by far the best representative of the DNR that a sportsman can ask for. He has gone well above and beyond the call to do a great job!

Where are you located? I see you don't have it in your profile. Is this local to a certain state?

Though there may be a few individual wardens that abuse their power, I would hate to see the MANY great individuals get slammed because of this

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The ONLY thing worse than losing.........IS QUITTING!!!!!!!
Lifetime member Wisconsin Trappers Assoc.


BrianKAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I have a complaint about the DNR!

It's taking to long to get the bullhead law passed!

If you're going to raise cane with them about that...I'm on your side!!

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Sweet

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Quote:

Hmmm, might Treehugger be the same dude as the original poster?




Ralph that NEVER happens here!

I was going to go into tree hugger,about a few things, but it's almost Friday an I really don't feel the need to get worked up over this.


Francisco de la Rosa IV

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Until last fall it had been a very long time since I had been stopped or checked by a CO. I was checked three different times last fall at the Trempealeau, WI boat landing. Everytime was quick and painless. Most conversations started after I had loaded the boat up and was draining the water out of my motors. The CO asked a few simply questions.

1. How was the fishing?
2. Did you use any live bait?
3. Did you see anything that you feel should be brought to my attention.

Once they asked to see my livewell.

I honestly can't remember a rude encounter. Other times they have approached my boat while anchored or trolling and have allowed me to continue fishing. Only to ask how the fishing was going. Asked us to show them out licenses, throwable, and extinguisher.

I too agree that having a more visible presence could be in the best interest of all outdoors people.

FDR


ou812

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


"Our local CO is a class act. Going by the initials D.K.!!"

Rainydaze, you have another one with the initials L.S. that's a real jerk, too.

By and large most of the DNR is doing their job well, but there's a few buttheads in the mix that are over-zealous, possibly perceived as abusive, as well as a few more that are plain lazy. Kinda like any other profession...


TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


James!! If you seek interaction ( and enjoy it) with CO's, that is your deal. I dont seek that sort of attention. You make your living on the water, I dont. Again, read the 4th!!! I dont drive 4 hours, and portage a kayak a mile through brush to find a hidden Lake, to have a lovely conversation with an armed Warden, over something he has no jurisdiction ( unless you consent)
The amendment gurantees your right to privacy, even in public, unless " the facts and circumstances within the arresting officers knowledge are sufficient to warrent a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime"
When there are grounds for suspicion that a person has committed a crime, AND PUBLIC JUSTICE AND THE GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY require that the matter should be examined, there is said to be "probable cause"
Again, if you are not doing anything to be endangering "public justice, and the good of the community", you should be left secure in your persons, houses, papers and effects, as guranteed by the constritution.
A CO doing his job out on the water, or in the woods is certainly entitled to approach you and check your credentials that permit any kind of consumptive activety that you might be doing that require a permit or liscense.
That contact does not give them an open door to check everything else NOT related to activety related to the resource. That, is changing, thanks to the influx of new money, and peoples attitudes who are willing to go along with it!!
I need to elaborate that my negative contact with LE hasent always been with CO's.
Forest Rangers have the same expanded powers that CO's do, and the same tendancy to abuse them.
Ever do any camping in Public Parks or Forests?
Would you feel comfortable if someone was watching you with night vision goggels as you sit around a campfire?
How about if you and your 20 y/o boys went camping, and you allowed the boy to drink a few beers around the fire. You go to another campsite to visit with other people and come back to find the boys in hand cuffs, with breathalyzers hanging out of thier mouths. You later learn in court that they were video taped, from the bushes. Even with that evidence, the boys were never observed drinking. Instead, the Rangers set up a sting ( in less than an hour) Raided the site, and contended a pile of beer cans( yours)and the smell of alchohol on them( from the beer that you, legally, as guardian, allowed them to drink earlier) constituted underage drinking. Of course, the boys tried to defend the allegation, and resisted ( another charge)
By that time, another Squad arrives with a Canine unit, and proceeds to rip not only the "offenders" camping gear apart, but an adults ( mine), who had been gone no more than an hour and a half.
It cost me the weekend, some gear, allot of stress, and $1,500 in legal fees to get them to dismiss an allegation that was not even illegal.
The only reason this happened is that the Rangers went out of thier way to observe law abiding citizens. They used exspensive techology to do so, and did it not because anyone was endangering public justice or the good of the community, they did it because they can. And they can, because of people like you, and those who are willing to consent to the dissolution of the 4th amendment.
And this elaboration is just one of many similiar encounters with LE within the DNR, and NONE of them involve fish and game conservation.


TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


For the record...I am not the same as the original poster of this topic. And yes, I am new. I found this forum while searching for others who have had a negative experience with LE.
I do not apologize for being new, not giving my real identity, or posting on "your" forum, or standing up for the constitution for that matter.
Yes, this is a "trolling" expedition. I am looking , like the original poster, for people with the same experience. If they do not frequent this board, so be it.
Some of you people were pretty quick to come out of the gate swinging, even before I had time to elaborate just ONE example!!! AND............

Here in Wisconsin, there is a waiting list for getting into the "thankless job that nobody wants" (conservatio/forestry LE)

Edited by TreeHugger (02/12/09 12:01 PM)


moreyes

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Hmmm.... let me think, nope all positive they are doing their job, I have spent allot of hours hunting and fishing, been stopped a few times, they have all been great people. i guess if you dont break the law you wont have an issue, but I suppose if you theoretically break the law and they ding you might have an issue like treehugger with them

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Most of my money is spent on fishing, fishing tackle and boats, the rest is wasted......Thanks Kirt Hedquist
NPAA 292 <'((^)){


big G

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I assume you got it all straightened out in court I can assure you nothing remotely close to that has happened to me, but if it did, I would have my day in court. If your looking for "stories" like that, I think you will be hard pressed to find any here.... but hey, you can sure try, thanks to the 1st amendment I am guessing most of the CO's wouldn't fall into the zealous category that the CO in your story does. I would think it would be handled on an individual basis, and wouldn't be titled that the whole DNR does this.

big G

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big G

You can tell how big a person is, by what it takes to discourage them! "Hooks"




B Curtis

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Hard to follow the rambling story, but you are upset because you got busted giving minors booze? Yes, that sounds like those Rangers are abusing their power

Ottomatica

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Nothing but good experiences for me. I've only had problems with Sherrifs and even those were minor, i.e. on Lake Minnetonka where a cruiser can throw a 3 ft wake plowing through no wake zone and my 4" wake from my bass boat is an issue.

BomberA

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I believe he said he was drinking with his kids, which would be legal, assuming its in WI. Then, he left and after he left the kids were busted for underage drinking because they were no longer in his care.

If true, I would be a little disturbed if someone was spying on me while I was camping ... especially after seeing the things I do when I go camping


James HolstAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Again, your attempts to "clarify" the protections offered under the Fourth Amendment are unnecessary.

This followup post does bring things into focus for me and after reading it I'm far from interested in going one post further with this.

You supplied alcohol to minors (your sons - I have no issue with that so don't assume I'm claiming high moral ground) and you left them unsupervised in a park and they got busted. And that bust was due, in your opinion, to an unlawful "sting. Got it. And you think the LE's were out of bounds for arresting unsupervised minors who were drinking in a state park with no adult present. That sheds light. Thank you.


JLDII

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


If you were gone as you said for an hour and a half visiting another camp, and those underage kids were drinking while you were gone, it is underage drinking, even if you were the one who legally bought the beer and shared it with them as a consenting parent. When you left them unattended, they were no longer under the control of you as a parent, and should not have been drinking. From what you explained, I fully understand why the LE officials acted as they did. Why would you leave underaged kids in the woods for an hour and a half, knowing that they had been, and might continue, to drink?

I'm sorry, but I can offer any of my understanding to your arguements.

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Free speech is only a freedom if no nobody censor's it.


Drew H.

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I have always thanked a warden for doing his job and added that with out them we wouldn't have what we have in WI. Only once did the warden fail to respond to the pat on the back. I teach Hunter Safety and tell the kids the same thing. During the hunting season these guys and gals have to approach maybe 10 armed people to do what they do. That alone gives me an excuse to look past a rude warden. In the field you must respect his authority and choose how you treat him as a person. If you get the two mixed you are going to come out on the loosing end. The wardens in WI. are resonsible for and are expected to enfore all of the laws in WI. if they observe them. Ask yourself how would you approach a armed group of people by yourself with only a holstered pistol knowing that they are about to give some citations or have to say "you are under arrest sir" and reach for the cuffs. You have to pick your battles and in the field is no place to start. I would suggest that you check the State Supreme Court findings on search and seizure involving the problem that you find unreasonable. You may find that it has been heard and is now settled law. The citing of the rules of search and seizure is not a blanket opinion to use be applied in every instance. Beyond probable cause there is extigent circumstances and other rules that apply which if properly applied and properly testified in a court on a motion to suppress your motion to supress will be denied. If your son was drinking beer in view of the officer and he confiscates the can of beer in is covered under the plain or open view doctrin. In most states all squads are equipped with video cameras to obtain a record of the arrest. You can't fault the ranger from "hiding in the bushes" to gather evidence to prove his suspicions of underage drinking. His job is not a game to played by what you concider fair play.

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There are two kinds of people in this world "Givers and Takers" "How can I help you"


chomps

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


gosh! here I thought this would turn into a story about the time kooty was held against his will and a perch was put somewhere,,, and he actually enjoyed it!

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Pete-Dude! It's Beef!


hunting4walleyes

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I am with the majority on this one. I think they deserved praise and they do not deserve to be looked down on.

I saw a CO on Monday walking through driving rain to check one angler sitting on a 25 acre lake in Eagan. What the icefisherman was doing setting out in that rain is beyond me.

I think we should have a positive thread about CO's and I am sure it would go much farther than this one will ever go, unless someone keeps


WADE74

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


here's an idea, maybe follow the law while you are in "public ares"

Chico Diablo

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I have nothing but positive contacts with all types of law enforcement personnel. Looks like Tree Hugger is one of todays, people that blame everyone else for them screwing up. Its not my fault, it is everyone elses. Go get a life, if you can.



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Petri Heil
Good Fishing/Tight Lines


Drew H.

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Oops forgot spell check and sentence structure.

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There are two kinds of people in this world "Givers and Takers" "How can I help you"


Rootski

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I always figured that the CO's were on MY side, they were trying to protect the resource. The bad guys are the poachers and litter bugs and criminals, they're the ones I don't like.

I've never had a problem with the Warden.

Rootski
Fishing for 50 years now.

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If people don't occasionally walk away from you shaking their heads, you're probably doing something wrong - John Gierach


roosterrouster

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Am I missing something .? You give the okay for your kid to drink beer and he's under age...He gets busted and its the DNR's fault. I'm sure your area has classes on how to be a father. Giving them beer is YOUR fault not law enforcements...Geez dude...RR

Bosman

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


On the water I've had nothing but great conversation with several CO's. Heck, Chuck Horn even gave me a tip on a location that was holding some good fish one time.

In the woods, my late father did get fined years ago for something I believe there was some gray area and a ticket wasn't necessary. While group hunting some public land he shot a buck. Nothing big. Nothing fancy. The deer rolled into one of those straight up and down Mississippi bluff ravines. Out of ear shot and getting late in the afternoon he retrieved the deer alone with rope. Before tagging the deer he tied the rope around the head/antlers and used a tree as a pulley to get the deer out of the ravine. - Key words there - BEFORE TAGGING. A warden was standing on the old logging road when he climbed out of the ravine after getting the deer out and wrote him before the last sweat bead from his forehead hit the ground. The deer had not been field dressed or anything. The violation was for transporting a deer before being properly tagged. A violation? Technically YES, but in my opinion this was really splitting hairs or reading between the lines on the wardens part. My father was legal in every other aspect. License holder, Orange on, etc....

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Cuz that's what the Bos says..........


toothycritters

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


HI, mine is somewhat simple, although odd, I thought. My brother-in-law and I stopped at lake Arbutus in Wisconsin one day on the way back from a weekend fishing at lake Namekagon. We pulled into Arbutus and started prepping the boat for launch when the dnr shows up. My boat was only a couple years old at the time and I try to keep up with the rules and such so I was certain there would not be an issue. There were 2 c.o.'s , one gets out and identifies himself and asks to go through my boat, ok. He walks around and comes to the fire extinguisher, pulls it out of the mount and shoots it off at my feet, hands it to me and tells me I need a new extinguisher!!!! Iam not sure what the hell to think now. Maybe they don't want us fishing, maybe he is selling these at a ridiculous price, I was flabbergasted to say the least but I bit my tongue. I don't even remember what I said to this but he told me to get one as soon as possible. I think that he did say something about it not having a gauge on it. I asked if that was required and he said "no".

Nothing major but it was confusing to say the least.


mrjigger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Wonder if the original post has anything to do with the instructor that was discussed in the Wisconsin Outdoor News.

Edited by mrjigger (02/12/09 12:48 PM)


Cougareye

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I'll try to clear up the WI minor consumption issue. This was news to me but apparently, in WI, minors can consume alcohol in public provided they are in the care of a parent.

I got to witness this 1sthand while deer hunting this fall. Our hunting party and extended family went into town for pizza. The parents informed the bartender/manager that they intended to give beer to the two 16 year old girls in the family. The manager was fine with it, and the girls enjoyed a cold one .

It was foreign to me but apparently that's the law in WI!!

Eric


RoadKing

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I have had nothing but positive interactions with the CO's be it Minnesota, South Dakota, North Dakota or Wisconsin. In my home territory I have the Local CO on speed dial. Thank God some one wants to do that job!!!

King185

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


what a great thread!

I've been stopped by CO's quite a few times on the Croix and have always welcomed them to my boat and have been very polite with them. I'm not doing anything wrong and they're doing what they're supposed to do! I received some of the best tips on a hot bite and had some of the best days fishing after I my rights were trampled upon...


Chico Diablo

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


That is true in Wisconsin, but the point is they have to be in the care of the parent. Where he screwed up was leaving the campsite and they where no longer in his care. Same as in a bar if the parent leaves the minors may no longer consume alcohol on the premises. Again lets blame others for your screw up.

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Petri Heil
Good Fishing/Tight Lines


Gonefishing

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Sorry if I disappoint you but I have nothing but good to say about any and all wardens I have come in contact with. The only violations we have had is unsigned stamps and the warden just had them sign them no tickets. I wish there was some way we could help them. I know one guy who taught his sons not to talk to the DNR, he always said for example what is the limit on turkeys? As many as you can shoot. What is the limit on turkeys if the DNR is around One! Yeah he was and is a loser. Kind of guy they need to catch.

Perch_44

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


i have had a couple bad run ins with CO's, but who knows, maybe they were just having a bad day. but 99.9999% of wardens i have ever talked to have been great, and very respectful of me. especially my local wardens, i've got nothing good to say about them.

the only issue i've run into was some federal wardens in the dakotas, they got a little "out of hand" on some things, but i'm not going into that.


but you know what...i can be a prick sometimes too, it all depends on what day you catch me on.

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Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He waits...


josh runksmeier

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I think it's all there???

Robby

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Well this one time at band camp........

I still do not see the relevence between being accused of taking an extra goose and a body cavity search?


Drew H.

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Quote:

Wonder if the original post has anything to do with the instructor that was discussed in the Wisconsin Outdoor News.


I read that one and that guy has a problem. Maybe this guy is the one but if he isn't they should get together and compare notes.

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There are two kinds of people in this world "Givers and Takers" "How can I help you"


EyeJacker

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I did have one experience that could have gotten ugly however the C.O.s were very understanding. It all happened when I was on pulled over on the river, after checking my license they politely asked if I was catching any fish, to which I answered no! They then asked if they could check my live wells to which I responded in the affirmative. After opening the live wells they counted 11 large walleyes. As they were getting ready to write the ticket and impound everything I own , I told the C.O.s that I did not catch those fish and they were my pets which I brought with me so they could take a swim. I told them that when I whistled they would return to the boat and I would put them back in the live well for the trip home. Well, not surprisingly, they did not believe me, but I convinced them I could prove it if they would allow me. They agreed, so I took the fish from the live well one at a time and gently put them in the river, talking to the fish all the while. A few moments after they were all swimming in the river, one C.O. demanded that I whistle the fish back to the boat. To which I responded What fish?

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I know you believe you understand what you think I wrote, however, I am not sure you realize that what you read is not what I meant!


JLDII

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Quote:

Well this one time at band camp........

I still do not see the relevence between being accused of taking an extra goose and a body cavity search?






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Free speech is only a freedom if no nobody censor's it.


birdman

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Personally, all my dealings with COs have been fine. Other than checking for licenses and maybe asking to see any fish I've caught they have never pushed the envelope of my right to unreasonable search and seizure.

That being said I would have a problem if I didn't keep any fish and they still wanted to search coolers, livewells, etc. I would want to know why that would be neccessary.


TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


People sure dont read before they post.
for one, it is legal for minors to drink when accompanied by an adult legal guardian ( in Wisconsin)
I have the position that if they are old enough to die for this country, they can sure as hell have a beer with thier fish fry. Especially in the middle of the woods, in Northern WI. For crissakes, what do you do on a guys weekend out, have them play with Barbie Dolls? One is enlisted in the National guard!!!
As posted earlier, they were NOT drinking in my absensce, even as shown on the video tape, in fact, they hadent drank for a few hours before I made the expensive mistake of leaving the campsite to use the Shitter, and stopped at a campsite along the way back. Conversation was good, so I stayed awhile. Little did I know that a sting was under way, one of MANY carried out in the same manner as this for all of you who know so much about the WISCONSIN DNR
Long Story short, before a judge, in court, $1500 later, it was dismissed. No illegal activety took place, in fact the judge wondered why they initiated contact. I was hoping to discuss these type of contacts with competent people who might have had the same experience. Apparently, those people do not at this time occupy these forums.
Instead, I see a bunch of reactionary people who just fire from the hip, after reading the first 3 sentences of a long and complicated issue. I get the mental image of someone with thier pants down to thier knees submitting to a body cavity check, because they like the Warden, and look forward to such activety, as long as it makes them feel good!!
Ya think its ok to have to spend $1500 to defend yourself from something that should have never happened?

This activety mirrors at least 4 other similiar bust's that the Rangers did. What they all have in common so far is that during a routine patrol, the Rangers spotted "YOUNG PEOPLE" In thier own words, in the incident report, they admitted to immedialty parking the squad and setting up survelience based on the age of the campers. A persons age is hardly probable cause to start spying on people with infra red cameras.
and by the way, I was never charged with anything. I am not disgruntled because I got caught for doing something wrong. You people are defending a class of LE that is clearly out of control. You do so just because you did not have (yet) a negative experience. I would think the reason for that is that you are submissive, and will consent ( to just about anything) I think another reason that I know of so many people who have been hasseled is because of class.
What I do not have in common with those support Jack Boot thug police tactics is that, for one, I dont have a $60,000 "fishing boat" I dont wear a uniform while on the water, with badges of corporate sponsors all over it. I do not use our Natural Resources to generate revenue, or for competative purposes.
I paddle a simple Kayak, not required to be registered, and am rarely fishing from it. Hence, no need to approach me, ask for ID, and go into a thourough background check to make sure that while paddling in Northern Wisconsin, I am not wanted for over due library books!!!
And If I was, thank god they are just doing thier job. Yep, another $1000 of taxpayer money was spent today to apprehend a kayaker who had overdue library books. Sign them heros up for more Homeland security funding!!! They need more rubber gloves f0r people like you!!!
And a reference to "underage drinking" and serving country. It is sad that the cemeteries are full of veterans who died for our freedom, in wars past and present, and yet so many of you are willing to give up that freedom. You all stand so united on the second amendment, yet you turn a blind eye to the rest of the Bill of Rights!!!


PierBridge

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Personally, all my dealings with COs have been fine.


Now if your talking about how the DNR has mis-used our Tax dollars in the past thats a whole another story...


SIVee

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Hey, where's the hot bite at?
I just want to know who really cares about this guys problem?
This is where we come for GOOD info, right?
C.O.'S around the country have a huge job and responsibility for proteceting our sportsmen's laws and rights! Thats why we pay $$ for hunting/fishing.
Going out on the Croix tomorrow morning for some slabs!!


big G

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I am guessing I am excluded from your response, as I simply said, I would have my day in court (which you did) and that I have never experienced anything as zealous as that. I then went on to say, I don't see how one can condemn a whole organization for a couples actions... BTW, I enlisted in the US Army when I was 17 and dad let me sip a few beers before I was 21.

big G

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big G

You can tell how big a person is, by what it takes to discourage them! "Hooks"




icejunkie

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Sounds to me like you should never have let your kids drink and then left them alone at night in a park. Seems pretty irresponsible if you ask me. My dad let me have some beers in the house and in the back yard before I was 21 but he didn't let me leave the property after I had had the beers and he definitely stuck around where he could see me. In my opinion the blame is yours. Now get over it!

And where are the fish biting?! My ice is hosed unless we get some cold weather and fast. It is way too early for the ice to be falling apart.


Farmboy1

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I think I have a clear grasp of what happened.

LE drives by, sees people who he deems underage, observes these people drinking, checks them and they are underage, Issues ticket, you have your day in court, judge deems it was a legal situation and you all go free.

WOW, isn't Amercica great Innocent before proven guilty. You know you also had the right to have a court appointed attorney so you would not have the $1,500 lawyer fees.

I myself once got an underage consumption (I know big shock ) I paid my fee, did not reoffend, and it was expunged from my record within a year. It was my first beer, but I was drinking it, and was caught. End of story. Maybe the cop was hidding outside my apartment with spyglasses waiting for me to walk out get me, but it didn't matter, I was caught doing something that was illegal, and I dealt with it.

I do have a problem letting a LE person search me, my boat, car, or home. If they were a dink about it, I would stand my ground and not allow it to happen, but on the other hand, if I treat them nicely, show them my livewell if they ask, wave goodbye when they leave, and maybe even share a soda with them, I will save myself a ton of time on the water, and get back to fishing. That is worth giving up the freedom of my livewell. It would be different if he wanted to search my truck, or home, but a livewell is the line I draw in the sand.

I hope you do not have any additional problems with the law, and you can enjoy your time on the water

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I would rather be sittting in the boat thinking of God, then sitting in church thinking about fishing.


SLACK

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


treehugger,
why did it ti cost you $1500 to defend yourself?

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"IF YOU DON'T HURT THEM, THEY JUST KEEP COMING BACK"


TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Thank You Big G, You can see how a subject like this can go into just about any direction.
Suddenly, I am attacked for letting a 19 and 20 y/o have a few beers around the fire.
I have too much time on my hands today, as it is the mud season here ( not enough ice or open water to do anything)
hence, I keep the thread going....
Anyways, having enlisted, can you imagine what this incident did to us?
The kid enlisted, wich was kind of unpopular among my side of the family. ( Attack me now)
Anyways, its one of the Last weekends left before he begins training. The other is enrolled in College.
How do you explain to someone who just signed on the dotted line to run off to some godforsaken country and protect other peoples freedom, when here at home, look what happened?? For crissakes, the kid has 2 beers with dinner, and a few hours later, his status is in jeopordy. His whole future went up in smoke, the same with the other one. Its hard as hell to get into a good college, and heaven forbid, if you have any infractions on your record, they use that to cull the herd. Two peoples lifes went up in smoke for having a beer earlier, and then later being approached and blamed for a pile of 2 day old beer cans from 2 previous nights of camping.
Innoceant until proven otherwise? It took 3 round trips of 280 miles each to make various court appearances, to spend less than 15 minutes each to talk to a DA. That interferes with Guard Duty, College studies, and work schedules.
That on top of the lingering psychological effects.
That Campground/campsite was full of memories. I had been taking them Boy's, and thier friends there for years. Some of the best times in our lives has been spent there.
Now everyone in our group hates it. Nobody has any desire to go back there, or to that entire area, which is LOADED with outdoor recreation.
When I read ( and investigated) the stories of others within that same Ranger district, I can no longer feel comfortable camping there.
We found, through court proceedings, that they routinely use high tech survelience on law biding citizens.
In one case, a warning of a Bear nearby was probable cause to enter a campsite, and proceed with an investigation into unrelated allegations of illegal activety.
Hence, the need to re-iterate what probable cause really means.
As it stands, a bear in the woods is grounds to make contact, even with a camera.
There will always be bears in the woods!!!
Unless stopped, they can always barge into a campsite , shine a light on a pile of cans, allege that you smell of beer, and make an arrest. Even when they admitted they never saw them drink!!
Inexscusable, regardless of any of these other peoples lovely encounters with LE!!!


Spinbait Stu

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


It must be nice to know the state govt. is actually doing what is supposed to. Here in Illinois, governors act like your dnr.

Sweet

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Against all better judgement here I go...
Quote:

I paddle a simple Kayak, not required to be registered, and am rarely fishing from it. Hence, no need to approach me, ask for ID, and go into a thourough background check to make sure that while paddling in Northern Wisconsin




Ok so YOU own a kayak and By law do not need to register. that's fine.

YOU choose to rarely fish from it Also fine what you do with your Kayak is up to you.

But here is where I'm confused. HOW THE Do they know they know that you rarely fish from it? Why should the fact that you choose to rarely fish from your kayak make it ANY different from anyone else who happens to be on the water. I'f I'm out in my parents Ski boat just sitting in the lake enjoying the summer day ( which I do about twice a year) I feel they have every right to stop in and check on me.
A) they don't know how often I do this so they can't be held responsible for the fact that I chose to do it the same day they happen to be on the lake.
B) How is the fact that I do it about twice a year different than if I do it 2 times a week? Point is I'm still doing it right?
C) ultimatley if Criminals had a concense and turned them selfs in We wouldn't need the LE. Problem is they aren. So When a CO pulls up to the boat and that boat (FOR EXAMPLE) Happens to be 20 crappies,lets say, over the limit. Are these people who are knowingly breaking the law going to tell the CO that they are over the limit? NO! So how is it then that you propose that it's determined if searches need be done, since searching every one isn't high on your list?

Ok I'm done with this.I spent more time on this than I ever intended or even cared too, and I played right into the game.

Is it Saturday yet? I have fishing to do.


roosterrouster

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Bottom line here is that the laws the law! Don't really care that he was headed for Iraq or not. Did he break the law. YES! As his parent maybe your butt should have been next to his instead of a couple camps away. Your fault dude. He broke the law! And thats the LE's fault how??? RR

TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Slack, you asked why the legal fees?
For one, they wore us down. The 3 trips we made were a few of many reguired. It was interfereing with everything at home, so we gave up and had a lawyer do it.
For the sake of clarity, there were other charges made AFTER the Rangers illegally made first contact. Those charges were also dismissed, but had to be challeneged in court.
You can get a court appointed attourney ( public defender) who is usually incompetent. They will usually try to get you to settle to a lesser charge. Also, you have to make like under $25k a year or something like that to qualify.
How do you tell someone they should plead guilty to a lesser charge of something they didnt do?
And for others: I didnt leave the "park" or the"children" unattended. At 19 and 20 yrs old we left the babysitter at home.
I was a couple of thousand feet away, in another loop of the same campground. I saw all the squads go by, never dawned on me what was going on until they started throwing people around, and the dogs went nuts
For those that are remotely interested: This reveals a whole system that goes on daily. They charge you with something, and make it a mandatory appearance for the defendant, even to plead guilty or not guilty, something you can usually do by mail. Then, contrary to the norm, they schedule a "pretrial". This is nothing but a practice run for the DA, to see what kind of case he has. Totally unfair, but mandatory appearance also> Then, there is supposed to be the trial, but nope, the DA calls a conference...again, mandatory appearance. 15 mnts of posturing, then an offer is made to take a lesser charge. Nope, not doin it, I want a trial, so 2 months pass, then, the DA calls another conference....and so it goes. They clearly try and wear you down
They did not have a case, and they knew it. The DA was trying to get the kids to incriminate themselves. Why? because during the arrest, once the cuffs came out, they refused to cooperate. They did not incriminate themselves that night, so the DA tried to get them to admit to false statements made by DNR staff after the fact, and not on the report.
If the tables were turned, I would not be able to admit any incidents in court unless they were on the incident report. There were many incidents of that nature, that were not cited, such as the use of the canine units.
Through a special consultation between a hired lawyer and the DA, it was determined that the incident report was inaccurate. If I had not gotten the lawyer, I would have never gotten that far. Any attempts by us to contact the SAME DA, were refused by that office.
See how they work?
It all costs time and money.
And when you look back at what they accomplished, or try to, its a total waste of taxpayer money and time.
That night, 3 Rangers had to log 3 hours of OT. The County Sherrif Canine Unit ( totally unecessary) was used and billed ( to us). Then, 3 DNR Trucks making a Round Trip to Eagle River ( 60 miles each)....for what?


Timmy

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Quote:

Bottom line here is that the laws the law! Don't really care that he was headed for Iraq or not. Did he break the law. YES! As his parent maybe your butt should have been next to his instead of a couple camps away. Your fault dude. He broke the law! And thats the LE's fault how??? RR




From what I have read, though, no laws were broken? A parent in WI can let his 20yr old drink in his presence. The kids were done drinking and the parent left......

Unless I mis-read the posts...it does not appear that laws were violated, hence the dismissal.

Tim

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I'd rather be in the boat with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.


BomberA

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Im following you treehugger, but I just want to clarify some things.

Why were dogs brought in?
Was anyone resisting arrest?
Did your son's have to take breathalizers?
How long were you gone?
Was there anything else found on your person besides alcohol that would increase the risk to these officers?

To me sounds like just a bad case of timing and some over aggressive patrol, but of course we are only getting one side of the story.

And, I laugh at those who tell you that its irresponsible to leave your kids of that age alone while you walk to the bathroom and get caught up in some idle chit chat on the way back. I'd feel bad if some of these clowns posting here were on a jury of my peers. I never realized that everyone posting on here waited til they were 21 to have alcohol.

The only problem I see is that if they were drinking while you were gone and did something else to attract attention to themselves?


Ferny

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Lighten up Francis
just kidding! I couldn't resist.

I went to basic training while I was 17 and I could...and did drink on base! Even though the drinking age was 18 down there at the time. WI is a way more open on minor drinking than MN so it surprises they hassled you. Sounds like something you'd here in MN.

fire extinguishers...it must be a WI thing? I was checked on the Croix down by the Kinni by the red haired WI. guy twice in one hour! The second time he asked to see my fire ext. Even though it had a meter (and it was green) he took the pin out and put it in a different spot and pulled the trigger to test it WTF! I think he was trying to find something wrong but couldn't??? I didn't hang around for his 3rd round I had enough.

Seems like you get some CO's that are nice and some that aren't just like co-workers. It seems like most people in LE are type A personalities and I can see how that rubs some people the wrong way.

Can you elaborate on how there lives went up in smoke?

Ferny.


TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


wow, read on ignorant...laws were not broken, or even the appearance was not there. They were NOT drinking, without my presence...END OF THAT part, ok? Thanks for the parenting skill sermon, I already defended that issue.
And the Kayak....ever been in one?
Any fishing gear would HAVE to be visible. A guy clipping along at just under wake with both hands on the paddle is clearly NOT fishing. The life jacket is on, in plain view, hence NO NEED for contact. No further jurisdiction here, unless you want to chat, which I choose not to. Sure, they CAN, but does mean they SHOULD? Get the 2 clear!!!

And thanks for the example of sitting on a boat on a summer day.
In July, of '08 at least 5 pontoon boats are tied together out on very large Lake Minocqoa.

An occupant of ONE of the boats is smoking pot. The DNR observes this from almost a half mile away, again, with a high tech camera. The person is filmed in the act. After 45 minutes of filming everyone, they make contact. EVERYBODIES boats and personal belongings are searched, not just the boat who's occupant was violating ( a non fish and game law) One of the unrelated boaters ( who didnt even know the offender) was taken to shore to have his vehicle searched on unrelated allegations.
During THAT court proceeding, it was accidentally revealed just how many boaters they had filmed that day!!!!
The Town Of Minocqoa wanted a camera like that, but the Townspeople thought they would abuse it, so they denied funding for such things. The DNR , on the other hand, asks for such technology, for "fish and Game violators", yet they use it to film Bikini clad boaters, or people sitting around a campfire.
Hence, the "general brush" used to paint the DEPT ( Wisconsins) as a whole, and not the actions of a few sloppy officers. This is built in to the mentality, and admitted by management. It is a "command and controll" issue, as stated by Scott Hasstert who left the DNR as its Secretary, because of such behavior
some of you might be tired of this subject, nobdy is forcing you to follow it. I do respect other peoples experiences, as positive. The point is not to try and change someones opinion. The last few posts are responses to ignorance, and would not be necessary. You try and have an intelligent conversation, and someone either attacks your grammer and sentence structure, or takes something totally out of context, or thier realm of knowledge, and runs with it as if it was fact!!!


MarkMoran

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Sounds to me you had a bad experience with some rangers and you are still quite bitter. You need to thank god you are all still alive, no one got hurt, it cost you some money but apparently that is okay since you have a computer and can type on it, you were educated enough to have a job, thank someone for that as well, and everything now is fine. Emotional scarring? Sounds like you just need to find a different rangers jurisdiction. Everything will be fine, do you have the right to be mad? maybe, but don't make it sound like it is everyone elses fault except your own or your boys. Just get over it, crappy stuff in life happens all the time to all sortts of people, you can choose to leave it in the past and move on, or you can worry about for years and let it wreck your life.
I would think you could move on!

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Mark Moran


JLDII

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


I might suggest that if you had presented your story to us and then asked for our opinions on the questions of probable cause, you would have had much better reponses from this group, myself included. While the subject is a heated one for you, you need to spell it out to others in a calmmer, unbiased manner so that people can draw their own conclusions and then share them with you.

I also might suggest that this forum isn't the best place to turn to to get this precieved probable cause problem addressed. Start with the Supervisors of those LE's that you feel have violated you. If you don't like the response you get from them, move up the ladder until someone either agrees to look into it, or convences you that nothing is going to be done about it and let it go. Another course of action would be to contact the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). This is exactly the type of thing they like to deal with.

Good Luck, and thank you for trying to instill into your kids the joys and values of the outdoors. More parents need to do the same.

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Free speech is only a freedom if no nobody censor's it.


Broncosguy

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


ok. I have spent a while trying to figure out what was typed on posts and see that I had to reprint twice as there were edits on here (additions after original post) and such. It seems like he got his "fishing" answers. here are my quesitons in regards to your posts treehugger.

1.) CO's became warden's, then became rangers and then became law enforcement. to me when you say L/E to me that means all law enforcement, police, MP's, CO's,warden's etc.....

2.)how does "they were busted for consumption when I was not there" in one post change to "a few beers before supper and a few later and i was only 1000 feet away" (if you are that far away ice fishing would you complain about that ticket?) plus a 3 day pile of cans? were you on video leaving the site? if not how did they know you were there? How long did they watch them?

3.) You state "I don't drive 4 hours and portage a mile through brush to a "hidden lake" to have a conversation with a armed warden, but that turns into a "campsite" that squad cars go driving down a road and a k-9 unit is there.

Tree hugger I am trying to follow the story and it looks like your "trolling expedition" worked, but don't you think if you would have put all that up front you would have got a truer response from the site and possibly even some support from posters here that what happend was bad?

Instead you gave enough for us to defend L/E and go after you for leaving the kids and then expand on the issue later. I am not argueing, but it is tough to support someones view point when they only give enough to get the response they are looking for.

I think if you would have posted the whole story and not just parts as you went along you would have had a better response.


that was a lot of reading time for my nap now.

Broncs

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think every day is a Friday that is how I make it through.


James HolstAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Treehugger

What is your point or desired outcome with this thread?

You didn't find people that shared your opinions of LE so you posted your story about your experience. Now you're trying to defend your experience as an example of overzealous law enforcement. OK. So what? You had your day in court, you were vindicated. I'm glad the court system worked for you and your sons so the issue could be resolved.

But we still haven't experienced what you're talking about.

Even if we were to all suddenly buy into the idea that two officers on patrol spot a couple kids doing absolutely nothing around a campfire and decide to set up high dollar surveillance equipment to catch them doing... absolutely nothing. And then, after the surveillance reveals... nothing... they move in for the bust. Isn't that just a single example of LE gone wrong and a far cry from a reason to indict an entire branch of law enforecement?

However, that's besides the point. You started this looking for people that had bad experiences with COs and LEs on a level that would justify a re-write of enforcement policy and you didn't find anyone. Not that you couldn't. Or won't. I'm sure there's people out there with stories for you. But I will contend that those instances are very, very isolated.

The part that puzzles me is it seems like you're trying to convince us all of something that I don't quite understand (yet, but I'm trying) by sharing a story of what happened to you and your sons? Although we can be sympathetic to your plight... I just don't understand your end game here. If you want people to agree with you and tell you that LE was wrong I think you got that when the charges were dropped.


TreeHugger

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Bomber, They remained silent once the cuffs came out. One resisted verbally, but later shut up. Remaining silent, in the eyes of these guys,( LE) was considered obstruction They refused to consent to a search of a vehicle that did not belong to them. Thus, the dogs were brought in. They also found a "weapon". A camp hatchet, and a 4" knife, in its sheath, both out of reach. At that time, they had all the cause they needed to do anything they wanted. I was gone no longer than an hour and half. In that time, I came back once to get a beer, and return to the other campsite. The boys were just sitting around cooking something on a stick, which was later described as "suspicious activety"
They got ruff with me because I asked what initiated contact in the first place. They said it was because of registration. ( Rangers do not register, the resident host does, and I had already made contact with him) When I tried to explain this, they began ordering me around, where to stand, not to move, etc. I informed them that I was the registrar of the campsite, and any dealing with that issue should be taken up with me, in other words, if I am registered, your business is done here. That is when they became beligerent. I was later told by the lawyer that is exactly what you should do. be polite, but firm, and do not provoke. If they initiated contact to investigate why the site did not have a tag, that is where it should have ended. Instead, they said that during a routine driveby, they saw the site did not have a tag ( it didnt 2 days before that either) so they decided to investigate ( again, they dont register, and its not uncommon for a site not to be registered until the following day. Upon approaching the site, they noticed "two young males", one doing "suspicious activety" so they decided to set up survelience.
The suspicious activety, and "weapons" are things that can be found in any campsite!!!
Hence, the jist of this whole subject!!!! A bear shits in the woods, and they need to run around and tell everyone, while doing that, they allege illegal activety ( observed, while telling of lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my), then, you have to jump through hoops to get it resolved.
Its also amazing, that this was in the middle of nowhere, yet within a very short time, a Canine was there, with 2 other DNR Squads. We later find out, its business as Usual for these Rangers. Just another Saterday night protecting citizens from themselves
Whhops, forgot a juicy one.... Even when it was explained about drinking earlier, they still breathalized them, after the fact. I asked why, and they told me it was to make sure none of them required hospitalization. ( no kidding)
Geeze, last year I fell asleep by the fire. When I woke up, I had a funney taste in my mouth. I wonder if the DNR was there to check on me, to make sure I didnt need hospitalization. My shorts were down and there was a rubber glove nearby, but most of you wouldt have a problem with that, after all, they are here to protect and to serve!!!


Stuart

Re: DNR Abuse Stories




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Time is like a river.You cannot touch the water twice,because the flow that has passed will never pass again.


Perch_44

Re: DNR Abuse Stories




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Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He waits...


Jason Halfen

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Thanks Perch! That's wonderful. At least someone who invests the time to read this thread up to your post will get something for their time....a good chuckle.

James HolstAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Please.... no more posts. Even if they are funny. I'll give Treehugger a short window to add the final word and then I'll lock this one up as it seems to have run its course.

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James Holst
In-Depth Outdoors Pro Staff
In-Depth Outdoors TV - Watch Episodes Online Here!
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James HolstAdministrator

Re: DNR Abuse Stories


Well, I see Treehugger is no longer in the "who's online" and has left the site so I'll lock this one down.

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James Holst
In-Depth Outdoors Pro Staff
In-Depth Outdoors TV - Watch Episodes Online Here!
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